Doug Gottlieb leaving ESPN

Originally Posted by UKMustangFan

IU won a close game against UK at home.

UK won a close game against UNC at home.

Pretty identical situations.

Pretty identical except for UK went on to lose exactly one more game, and win the NCAA tournament, while IU went on to lose 9 games and get put out of the tournament by UK. But other than that....

UK won head to head, had a better record, was ranked higher by every poll and computer program that ranks teams, etc, etc. Any argument that UK wasn't the best team in college basketball last year is wacky.

Originally Posted by mobaar

Pretty identical except for UK went on to lose exactly one more game, and win the NCAA tournament, while IU went on to lose 9 games and get put out of the tournament by UK. But other than that....

UK won head to head, had a better record, was ranked higher by every poll and computer program that ranks teams, etc, etc. Any argument that UK wasn't the best team in college basketball last year is wacky.

But that's not what you said. You simply said because UK beat them earlier in the season.

Originally Posted by UKMustangFan

But that's not what you said. You simply said because UK beat them earlier in the season.

Umm... go back and look at the post you quoted when you said the situations were identical.

And just because I didn't lay out all 10,000 reasons doesn't mean Gottlieb's "UNC > UK" argument is any more valid. You and Clyde are the only ones ONLY looking at head to head results. I mentioned it because its a quick and easy metric, and all other things being equal (which they aren't, "all other things" pretty universally point to UK being better), is a good indication of the better team.

Next time I'll try to post a 20,000 word essay fully exploring the topic.

Originally Posted by mobaar

Umm... go back and look at the post you quoted when you said the situations were identical.

And just because I didn't lay out all 10,000 reasons doesn't mean Gottlieb's "UNC > UK" argument is any more valid. You and Clyde are the only ones ONLY looking at head to head results. I mentioned it because its a quick and easy metric, and all other things being equal (which they aren't, "all other things" pretty universally point to UK being better), is a good indication of the better team.

Next time I'll try to post a 20,000 word essay fully exploring the topic.

Weak, Moobar. How hard would it have been to post your 2nd post when you posted your 1st?

Originally Posted by Clyde

Weak, Moobar. How hard would it have been to post your 2nd post when you posted your 1st?

I'm really baffled that this turned into a discussion (at least in this direction). I mistakenly assumed it was pretty obvious that there were vastly more metrics that pointed to UK being better than UNC last year, and that anybody readying a Kentucky basketball message board in August would probably be aware of them.

Actually, I'm not sure I can come up with ANY objective measurement that would say UNC was better than UK.

I never meant to imply that the head to head result was the ONLY reason Gottlieb's statement was ridiculous (and it wasn't even the only reason I mentioned in my original post). And even after I expanded my point, you two didn't want to let it go.

Originally Posted by mobaar

I'm really baffled that this turned into a discussion (at least in this direction). I mistakenly assumed it was pretty obvious that there were vastly more metrics that pointed to UK being better than UNC last year, and that anybody readying a Kentucky basketball message board in August would probably be aware of them.

Actually, I'm not sure I can come up with ANY objective measurement that would say UNC was better than UK.

I never meant to imply that the head to head result was the ONLY reason Gottlieb's statement was ridiculous (and it wasn't even the only reason I mentioned in my original post). And even after I expanded my point, you two didn't want to let it go.

Really should take off the blue blinders. It's one thing to be a die hard uk fan but it's another to no be objective and be a part of the 18%. Although UK had some great talent on paper coming into last season we had no idea what to expect from Davis, Teague, Kidd Gilchrist, etc. you toss in the inconsistent Miller and no bench to speak of and what do you expect? Almost all analyst had UNC at the top spot because they had talent plus experience. I seen no fault with anyone saying UNC was number one last year and any rational UK fan would have seen the same.

Originally Posted by SvFan4life

Really should take off the blue blinders. It's one thing to be a die hard uk fan but it's another to no be objective and be a part of the 18%. Although UK had some great talent on paper coming into last season we had no idea what to expect from Davis, Teague, Kidd Gilchrist, etc. you toss in the inconsistent Miller and no bench to speak of and what do you expect? Almost all analyst had UNC at the top spot because they had talent plus experience. I seen no fault with anyone saying UNC was number one last year and any rational UK fan would have seen the same.

We're not talking about coming into last season. We're talking about August 9th, 2012.

Kentucky Sports Radio » Blog Archive » Doug Gottlieb says UNC was the best team last year

Originally Posted by mobaar

We're not talking about coming into last season. We're talking about August 9th, 2012.

Kentucky Sports Radio » Blog Archive » Doug Gottlieb says UNC was the best team last year

I'm sure he's not the only analyst that thought that. Of course, I'm equally as sure you'll try to play that off as some evil media bias against UK.

Fact is, they were deeper than UK, they had a better PG, had enough size to match and be physcial inside with UK, and had a couple decent/solid shooters. They were also experienced. When you add all those things together, it's not hard to see that they matched up pretty well with UK. Do I think Kentucky was better? Yes, but someone saying they thought UNC was the best team is not an absurd opinion like you seem to think. As SV said, take off the blue blinders.

Originally Posted by Clyde

So I'm the only Gottleib fan?

I actually enjoyed his radio show, when he was on there. I'm pretty indifferent to what I saw out of him on TV. I think doing solo radio show takes a certain quality, can't really put my finger on it, and he had it. Cowherd has it and so did Erik Kuselias (probably my favorite).

Originally Posted by UKMustangFan

I'm sure he's not the only analyst that thought that. Of course, I'm equally as sure you'll try to play that off as some evil media bias against UK.

Fact is, they were deeper than UK, they had a better PG, had enough size to match and be physcial inside with UK, and had a couple decent/solid shooters. They were also experienced. When you add all those things together, it's not hard to see that they matched up pretty well with UK. Do I think Kentucky was better? Yes, but someone saying they thought UNC was the best team is not an absurd opinion like you seem to think. As SV said, take off the blue blinders.

He's claiming the team that finished 4th in the final AP poll was better than the team that finished 1st. The "fact is" that the "facts" you just rattled off are a bunch of subjective feelings. While any/all of them COULD be true, they don't mean squat without results.

UK won head to head, and there are ZERO other (objective) factors you can use to say UNC was better. What did UNC DO that would make you think they were better than UK?

All the "on paper" stuff you listed is fine for preseason rankings. UNC coulda/shoulda/woulda been been better than UK last year, but the bottom line is that they weren't.

The "blinders" quip is so old, and a crutch for bad arguments. If you can't argue the facts, argue the individual.

If any team had an argument they were better than UK last year it was Syracuse, and if Gottlieb had gone that direction, I would have disagreed, but its not nearly as silly of an argument.

^You really don't understand what an opinion is, do you? He simply claimed he felt UNC was the better team. You seem to be the only person who thinks that statement was so outlandish.

The "blinders quip" applies perfectly to you. You can't view any topic involving UK without having them tightly fastened.

Originally Posted by UKMustangFan

^You really don't understand what an opinion is, do you? He simply claimed he felt UNC was the better team. You seem to be the only person who thinks that statement was so outlandish.

The "blinders quip" applies perfectly to you. You can't view any topic involving UK without having them tightly fastened.

I didn't say he wasn't entitled to his opinion. I just said it was dumb. It doesn't offend me. Kentucky took home every significant (and probably insignificant) piece of basketball hardware that exists last year (save the SEC Tournament). In the last few years, this year's UK team was about as cut and dry of an undisputed #1 as there is in college basketball.

I'm saying there is zero objective evidence for a UNC > UK arguement/opinion, and you're claiming I'm incapable of being objective?

I'm also glad that you've now moved on to include "any topic" to the things I'm simply unable to be objective about. Dear lord. Dramatic much?

Sometimes you guys are so paranoid that the anti-UK contingent on here will label you the 18% that you bend over backwards to apply the label to other UK fans. Apparently my opinion is the only wrong one in this argument.