Why doesn't Ohio have the public/private problem with their football?

Page 4 of Correct me if I am wrong but last year five of the six state champions were public schools. Add to that both the teams in the large school (D1) finals ... 59 comments | 5450 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #46
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    ^^^ Ding Ding Ding.. what I tried to say, but he said a heck of a lot better. Nice work Ram.

    When the kids in Cincy are entering JR High.. they are already figuring out/preparing what high school football program they will play for. The feeder systems in Cincy are unmatched.

    Another cool example of OH trying to show off its football is that Herbstreit VS the USA challenge. Just a big time football state.

    What is your opinion Guru you have seen a lot of Bluegrass HS football for quite some time now.
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  2. #47
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    ^^^ Just my two cents, from a HS football fans perspective.

    I also was going to mention and forgot, Ohio State leads all other schools nation wide in merchandise sells.

  3. #48

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    It is starting to sound like a broken record, but I will have to agree with a lot of what is being said here......

    The thing that makes public schools successful in Ohio in football and not Kentucky is community involvement. The communities in Ohio are invested in their sports programs. All of their sports programs. Kentucky is not that way. If the communities in Kentucky invested themselves in other sports, besides basketball, I believe that the public-private debate would eventually go away. We have some public schools in this state that do that (Mayfield, Highlands, Beechwood, Male for example), but we do not have enough of them to counter balance the private schools and make it competitive.

    It is just this simple..... Ohio public school communities invest themselves in their schools and sports programs. Not all Kentucky schools do that. Yes, Ohio has a lot of football history, but it is the community support of athletics throughout the state that makes the public-private debate non-exisitant.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram
    I think state size has less to do with the quality of football in Kentucky versus Ohio.

    These stats are provided by the 2006 Census:

    Ohio Population 11,478,006
    Kentucky Population 4,206,074

    Ohio Square Mileage 40,948
    Kentucky Square Mileage 39,728

    Ohio Persons per Square Mile 277
    Kentucky Persons per Square Mile 101

    On the surface it looks like Ohio has a distinct population advantage, but when you factor in that Ohio has roughly 700 football playing schools versus Kentucky who has roughly 200 playing schools, you get:

    Ohio 16,397 persons for every football playing school
    Kentucky 21,030 persons for every football playing school

    The above figures would debunk the argument that population would be the deciding factor in Ohio quality of football versus Kentucky quality of football. All though this is not a scientific proven argument it does have some sound usefullness.

    Personally, I think it is simply mindset. Ohio is a football state, they have the Pro Football hall of fame, The Coaches Cradle, one of the most historic football colleges in Ohio State, two NFL franchises, several arena teams at different levels, the College Football Hall of Fame, many successful college football teams at different levels of play, and professional football would probable not exist if not for the historic revitalization that Ohio brought to professional football in its infancy.

    Ohio once had professional teams in Ironton, Portsmouth, Canton, Dayton, Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and several others that I can not remember.

    Kentucky just does not make football as important as Ohio does, kids in Ohio dream of playing football for their local school, they dream of playing football for Ohio State, the dream of playing for the Bengals or Browns. Kids in Kentucky are divided about basketball and football. I think football has come a long way in Kentucky, but has not reached the dominance level that it has in Ohio.

    I know it may seem simplistic, but if you want Kentucky to be as competitive as Ohio in football, the state, the schools, the fans, the parents, and the players have to make it a priority to build their football programs. This means great facilities, great atmosphere, scheduling other events around football, and using media sources.
    Very Very excellent post. And if you don't care I would to add a little bit. Based on your square miles figures, I took it another futher.

    I calculated the number of schools per square mile. Ohio has a High School playing Football every 58 square miles whereas in Kentucky there is a High School playing Football every 198 square miles.

    I bring this up because where I am from in Lawrence County where there is only one High School and some kids have to ride a bus over an Hour and half going and coming from school. That is 3 hours a day on a bus. I know there have been alot of kids that didn't play football ,or any other sport ,because of the hardship of getting a ride home if they stayed for practice. The school doesn't provide transportation to these students for any extra curricular activities or any sports that require staying after school hours.

    Alot of schools in Kentucky have the same problem. And it goes back to the community chipping in and helping out. Ohio has that support for all sports. Where I live now in London, Ohio the High School here is a D-IV school in football in a town that has almost 10,000 people in it. There is a small private Catholic school in town but it only goes to the 8th grade. After that some kids go on to London but alot go to Bishop Ready in Columbus or Central Catholic in Springfield both of those schools are only 20 miles away.

    If you wondering where I am going OK here goes: Alot of these kids at St. Patricks here in London play soccer and they continue to do so when they go to these other High Schools. Transportation is not a problem. Parents take turns picking up or taking kids to practice which is also done for kids who decide to play football at these schools or any other sport. COMMUNITY SUPPORT.

  5. #50
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    How many counties does Ohio have?

    I ask, because 120 counties seems like a lot for a state the size of Kentucky.

    Maybe we've sliced our pie in too many pieces for everyone to get their "fair share"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    How many counties does Ohio have?

    I ask, because 120 counties seems like a lot for a state the size of Kentucky.

    Maybe we've sliced our pie in too many pieces for everyone to get their "fair share"?
    My thinking exactly. And this could be applied to the number of schools in some counties as well.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    How many counties does Ohio have?
    88 counties in Ohio.

    They also don't have county schools. When some of my college friends heard me mention Boone County High, they thought it was strange. Up in their county, you went to Minster or New Bremen or one of the other schools in the small towns that dotted the county. That's the benefit of living in a state with 11 million people I guess.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getslow
    88 counties in Ohio.

    They also don't have county schools. When some of my college friends heard me mention Boone County High, they thought it was strange. Up in their county, you went to Minster or New Bremen or one of the other schools in the small towns that dotted the county. That's the benefit of living in a state with 11 million people I guess.
    We may be on to something here, without offending anyone, I think in Kentucky the communities seem to have more of a feeling of ownership in the private and independent schools then they do in the county schools. This is not a cross the board statement, but just an observation in the area that I live in.

    Also, look at the schools that win the state championships in football, most if not all of them are private or independent. In North-Eastern Kentucky we do not have any private schools who play football, but we have several independents who are more football minded: Raceland, Russeell, and Ashland. The County schools are: Greenup Co, Boyd Co, East Carter, West Carter, Lewis County, and Lawrence Co. The county schools have some success, such as Boyd Co, and Lawrence Co. but statistically the independents do better year in and year out. Now the above opinion can not be said just because the independents have better athletes, but I think the communities have more feelings of ownership with the independents then they do the county schools. Given the numbers look at the number of fans at a Raceland, Russell, or Ashland game as opposed to a county school football game. I am not belittling county schools, just giving an observation.

  9. #54

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    Ohio has individual school districts. They do not usually take up the entire county. In Madison County, West of Columbus Ohio, there are four school district. In the Northern part of the county is Jonathan Alder. The middle part of the county is divided by two village schools, West Jefferson and London. The Southern part of the county is Madison-Plains (which is the largest land area school district in the state of Ohio). As has been stated by some others in this thread, there is a lot of community involvement in these individual districts. It may equate to what is happening in the independent districts in Kentucky. Some counties in Kentucky, with only one high school may experience a difficult time getting people to play sports because of inability to get transportation to and from practice. This may be part of the problem, but that is where the community (meaning the county) has to find a way to help support the kids that want to play but can't because of distance issues. A lot of the problems with support comes from people not feeling invested in the schools in their county, as I have said in previous post.

    How do you get people invested? That is the 64 million dollar question. When people with county schools see the benefits of supporting those schools, then there might be movement. Until then, schools have to find a way to get the people in their counties to buy into the school or schools in their counties.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    How many counties does Ohio have?

    I ask, because 120 counties seems like a lot for a state the size of Kentucky.

    Maybe we've sliced our pie in too many pieces for everyone to get their "fair share"?
    Ohio has 88 counties. Yes 120 is slicing the pie alot.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwinglong
    Ohio has individual school districts. They do not usually take up the entire county. In Madison County, West of Columbus Ohio, there are four school district. In the Northern part of the county is Jonathan Alder. The middle part of the county is divided by two village schools, West Jefferson and London. The Southern part of the county is Madison-Plains (which is the largest land area school district in the state of Ohio). As has been stated by some others in this thread, there is a lot of community involvement in these individual districts. It may equate to what is happening in the independent districts in Kentucky. Some counties in Kentucky, with only one high school may experience a difficult time getting people to play sports because of inability to get transportation to and from practice. This may be part of the problem, but that is where the community (meaning the county) has to find a way to help support the kids that want to play but can't because of distance issues. A lot of the problems with support comes from people not feeling invested in the schools in their county, as I have said in previous post.

    How do you get people invested? That is the 64 million dollar question. When people with county schools see the benefits of supporting those schools, then there might be movement. Until then, schools have to find a way to get the people in their counties to buy into the school or schools in their counties.
    Throwinglong, First welcome to BGP and I am a transplanted Kentuckian living in Madison County, OH (London).

    Also the Jonathan Alder school district not only covers Northern Madison, but also part of Union County as well, which Plain City is located in both counties.

    I can't think of any school district, Independent or County that overlays into another county in Kentucky.

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    Kentucky has 120 counties for 40411 sq miles . Ohio 88 counties has for 44,828 sq miles . Not only too many counties but ergo too many politicians with their own little piece of the pie.

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    Oops just read post#45 Ram . Very cogent post.

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    Whinning is much easier than winning. It doesn't require all of the offseason workouts, etc..

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram
    I think state size has less to do with the quality of football in Kentucky versus Ohio.

    These stats are provided by the 2006 Census:

    Ohio Population 11,478,006
    Kentucky Population 4,206,074

    Ohio Square Mileage 40,948
    Kentucky Square Mileage 39,728

    Ohio Persons per Square Mile 277
    Kentucky Persons per Square Mile 101

    On the surface it looks like Ohio has a distinct population advantage, but when you factor in that Ohio has roughly 700 football playing schools versus Kentucky who has roughly 200 playing schools, you get:

    Ohio 16,397 persons for every football playing school
    Kentucky 21,030 persons for every football playing school

    The above figures would debunk the argument that population would be the deciding factor in Ohio quality of football versus Kentucky quality of football. All though this is not a scientific proven argument it does have some sound usefullness.

    Personally, I think it is simply mindset. Ohio is a football state, they have the Pro Football hall of fame, The Coaches Cradle, one of the most historic football colleges in Ohio State, two NFL franchises, several arena teams at different levels, the College Football Hall of Fame, many successful college football teams at different levels of play, and professional football would probable not exist if not for the historic revitalization that Ohio brought to professional football in its infancy.

    Ohio once had professional teams in Ironton, Portsmouth, Canton, Dayton, Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and several others that I can not remember.

    Kentucky just does not make football as important as Ohio does, kids in Ohio dream of playing football for their local school, they dream of playing football for Ohio State, the dream of playing for the Bengals or Browns. Kids in Kentucky are divided about basketball and football. I think football has come a long way in Kentucky, but has not reached the dominance level that it has in Ohio.

    I know it may seem simplistic, but if you want Kentucky to be as competitive as Ohio in football, the state, the schools, the fans, the parents, and the players have to make it a priority to build their football programs. This means great facilities, great atmosphere, scheduling other events around football, and using media sources.
    Great post Ram!

    Hopefully all of the people supporting Prop 2, separate private school leagues, etc. will take the time to read every post in this thread. It is the exception when we get a thread like this where almost every one agrees (for the most part).

    Please remember everyone, Ohio is a football state (with a lot of emphasis on doing well in football) vs. Kentucky where the emphasis is more on basketball than it is on football at many public schools?

    The bottom line is Prop 2 is not the solution for the public schools in KY, the solution is somewhere in the mirror for weak KY public football schools. Where in the mirror at your school is the million dollar question.

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