Why doesn't Ohio have the public/private problem with their football?

Page 3 of Correct me if I am wrong but last year five of the six state champions were public schools. Add to that both the teams in the large school (D1) finals ... 59 comments | 5430 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #31
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    Ohio is clearly a football state. One of the best football states in the country. Ohio football eats KY alive. We have two pro football teams, one of the best college programs in the county, and clearly top 5 HS football in the country.

    Trinity the KY power would have maybeeee 1/5th of their current championships in OH.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportz Addict
    Ohio is clearly a football state. One of the best football states in the country. Ohio football eats KY alive. We have two pro football teams, one of the best college programs in the county, and clearly top 5 HS football in the country.

    Trinity the KY power would have maybeeee 1/5th of their current championships in OH.
    How does this post in any way address the topic of the thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    How does this post in any way address the topic of the thread?
    Furthering the Guru's point on how Ohio is a football state. The private or public schools can compete for a title each year. But if you wanna get technical it can be a basketball state too. It almost seems like Ohio more athletes and spread out all over the state. But OH is not too much bigger than KY is it? KY certainly has athletes but many seem to be in the major cities. And in those major cities most go to a private school. After that happens its almost like the public schools are left with nothing in some areas.

    It is interesting to think about. I am familiar with NKY football. If they had a Trinity like 4A school in NKY, how much would all the public schools suffer, my guess would be badly.

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    For the record:

    Ohio is the 7th largest state (population) at 11,478,006

    Kentucky is 26th with 4,206,074

    Wikipedia-States by Population


    Ohio has at least 4 "big" cities that I can recall quickly (Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton) Kentucky has 1.

    So yes, Ohio is quite a bit bigger then Kentucky.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    For the record:

    Ohio is the 7th largest state (population) at 11,478,006

    Kentucky is 26th with 4,206,074

    Wikipedia-States by Population


    Ohio has at least 4 "big" cities that I can recall quickly (Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton) Kentucky has 1.

    So yes, Ohio is quite a bit bigger then Kentucky.
    Then that is clearly the difference. When looking at a map, OH does not look that much bigger. But it swallows KY apparently.

  6. #36
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    Maybe one of these days Kentucky will quit trying to comparing itself to Ohio, it is a different state with a different agenda. There is also something else I have noticed about the schools that have PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION: That is they just wory about going 1-0 for that week. They don't concern themselves with games that do not or will not happen or play out scenarios in their head that ask would've, should've, could've. They never ask themselves what would happen IF. They just concern themselves with the opponent they are facing that week and worry about winning that game. The constant state champions do this every week. Then when this happens for 15 weeks, they win state championships. YES, IT IS THAT SIMPLE! PRIDE, LOYALTY, AND TRADITION DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PUBLIC OR PRIVATE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kydlineguy
    Maybe one of these days Kentucky will quit trying to comparing itself to Ohio. There is also something else I have noticed about the schools that have PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION: That is they just wory about going 1-0 for that week. They don't concern themselves with games that do not or will not happen or play out scenarios in their head that ask would've, should've, could've. They never ask themselves what would happen IF. They just concern themselves with the opponent they are facing that week and worry about winning that game. The constant state champions do this every week. Then when this happens for 15 weks, they win state championships. YES, IT IS THAT SIMPLE!
    Best line ever.


    While I am looking forward to visiting St. Xavier in Cincinnati this year the results of the game have absolutely no bearing on Trinity's ultimate goal. Number 18.

    The same held true when Trinity beat Elder a fews years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kydlineguy
    Maybe one of these days Kentucky will quit trying to comparing itself to Ohio, it is a different state with a different agenda. There is also something else I have noticed about the schools that have PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION: That is they just wory about going 1-0 for that week. They don't concern themselves with games that do not or will not happen or play out scenarios in their head that ask would've, should've, could've. They never ask themselves what would happen IF. They just concern themselves with the opponent they are facing that week and worry about winning that game. The constant state champions do this every week. Then when this happens for 15 weeks, they win state championships. YES, IT IS THAT SIMPLE! PRIDE, LOYALTY, AND TRADITION DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PUBLIC OR PRIVATE!
    There is one difference between privates and most public schools.

    At privates, parents VALUE education and those things that go with it and will work for the pride, loyalty and tradition. Because they have CHOSEN that school.

    At a good number of public schools, there are a good number of parents who don't give diddly or squat about their child's education let alone the athletic program. They are not going to support it with their time or their financial resources if their kid is wanting to be involved.

    At privates, I would guess that 99% of the parents, if not 100%, are actively involved in their child's education including athletics.

    At most publics (Highlands and Beechwood are the exception to the rule in NKY because they are located in communities where parents DO value education like they do at private schools), that percentage is nowhere near that high.

    Example, one year many moons ago, I had 30 out of 150 students earn an F average at midterm and we had parent/teacher conferences. ONE parent of those 30 kids bothered to come and see me about why their child had earned an F in my class.

    Coaches cannot fix that problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladiesbballcoach
    There is one difference between privates and most public schools.

    At privates, parents VALUE education and those things that go with it and will work for the pride, loyalty and tradition. Because they have CHOSEN that school.

    At a good number of public schools, there are a good number of parents who don't give diddly or squat about their child's education let alone the athletic program. They are not going to support it with their time or their financial resources if their kid is wanting to be involved.

    At privates, I would guess that 99% of the parents, if not 100%, are actively involved in their child's education including athletics.

    At most publics (Highlands and Beechwood are the exception to the rule in NKY because they are located in communities where parents DO value education like they do at private schools), that percentage is nowhere near that high.

    Example, one year many moons ago, I had 30 out of 150 students earn an F average at midterm and we had parent/teacher conferences. ONE parent of those 30 kids bothered to come and see me about why their child had earned an F in my class.

    Coaches cannot fix that problem.
    Very good points. That is another private-school "advantage" that some don't realize exists.

    Note that I said nothing about it being fair or unfair ... just an advantage.

  10. #40
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    I hate to break it to everyone, but Prop 2, Prop 20, Prob 220, a total Public/Private Split.....

    None of those things will help the situation you describe either, LBBC.

    So, what's the solution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom
    I hate to break it to everyone, but Prop 2, Prop 20, Prob 220, a total Public/Private Split.....

    None of those things will help the situation you describe either, LBBC.

    So, what's the solution?
    I understand that it does not attack the disease that creates the situation. And athletic programs of any high school is not going to solve the problems that address this country.

    Prop 20, Prop 2 or anything is like a bandaid going on a gushing wound.

    But the schools in the KHSAA can only affect the athletic scene and they are trying to do something that gives young people more opportunities without watering it down to a point that it doesn't mean anything.

    The best solution is a good old fashion kick in the pants to those who need it but the politicians will never do that because it would offend some "liberal" group and they would never be elected. Instead our government has become a government of enabling.

    I will leave my P & R soapbox, now. Thanks for reading.


    I honestly agree with a good number of things that are said on here but you deal with a different type of clientele at Trinity at St. X at Highlands at Beechwood than you do at Newport at Holmes.

    EXCEPT for the comments that the private schools coaches outwork the public schools coaches or the comments alluding to that. Whatever to that one.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Tell
    Best line ever.


    While I am looking forward to visiting St. Xavier in Cincinnati this year the results of the game have absolutely no bearing on Trinity's ultimate goal. Number 18.

    The same held true when Trinity beat Elder a fews years ago.
    And thats the major difference in OH and KY football. If Trinity loses they probably cruise to the playoffs and probably state. If Cincy St X loses... well 1-2 losses in OH can = no playoffs. As for that Elder game I won't go yard with ya about it... there was a questionable call, but Trinity won. Trinity also had a top 5 ranked team in the nation that year. That kinda team will muscle up to the OH boys.

  13. #43
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    Remember, the purpose of this thread is not to compare how any given school from KY will do or has done against any given school from OH. The purpose of this thread is to discuss why the public football schools in Ohio don't have the problem the public football schools in KY have? In other words, why are the public schools in KY such a weak link?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by theguru
    Remember, the purpose of this thread is not to compare how any given school from KY will do or has done against any given school from OH. The purpose of this thread is to discuss why the public football schools in Ohio don't have the problem the public football schools in KY have? In other words, why are the public schools in KY such a weak link?
    Guru, I think that a lot of it goes back to school size. I'm using only private schools (not independent) for my figures, but over the last 15 years private schools have only been dominant, IMO, at the 4A level.

    In those 15 years in class A a private school has won the title 2 times and finished runner up 2 times. In class AA private schools have 0 titles and 3 runner up finishes. In class AAA private schools have 5 titles and 0 runner up finishes. In class AAAA private schools have 11 titles and 4 runner up finishes.

    Quickly reviewing some information regarding Ohio high school enrollments, it appears that quite a few of the public schools in Ohio have as many and often higher enrollments than the private schools.

    While from what I have read on here in the past the Trinity and St. X fans would like to believe that they work harder, have better coaching, campus athmosphere, etc. I don't doubt that they run quality programs but IMO a large part of their dominance is due to numbers. I would suspect that if a public school existed on the 4A (now 6A) level that had an equal number of boys to choose from as do those two private schools, that we would find that they could be competitive. If there were say 12 public schools (like exist in Ohio) the size of Trinity and St. X in 4A, I seriously doubt that the privates would have won the last 6 4A titles. Not to say that they would be any worse, but obviously an increased level of competition would prohibit any team for dominating a class.

  15. #45
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    I think state size has less to do with the quality of football in Kentucky versus Ohio.

    These stats are provided by the 2006 Census:

    Ohio Population 11,478,006
    Kentucky Population 4,206,074

    Ohio Square Mileage 40,948
    Kentucky Square Mileage 39,728

    Ohio Persons per Square Mile 277
    Kentucky Persons per Square Mile 101

    On the surface it looks like Ohio has a distinct population advantage, but when you factor in that Ohio has roughly 700 football playing schools versus Kentucky who has roughly 200 playing schools, you get:

    Ohio 16,397 persons for every football playing school
    Kentucky 21,030 persons for every football playing school

    The above figures would debunk the argument that population would be the deciding factor in Ohio quality of football versus Kentucky quality of football. All though this is not a scientific proven argument it does have some sound usefullness.

    Personally, I think it is simply mindset. Ohio is a football state, they have the Pro Football hall of fame, The Coaches Cradle, one of the most historic football colleges in Ohio State, two NFL franchises, several arena teams at different levels, the College Football Hall of Fame, many successful college football teams at different levels of play, and professional football would probable not exist if not for the historic revitalization that Ohio brought to professional football in its infancy.

    Ohio once had professional teams in Ironton, Portsmouth, Canton, Dayton, Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and several others that I can not remember.

    Kentucky just does not make football as important as Ohio does, kids in Ohio dream of playing football for their local school, they dream of playing football for Ohio State, the dream of playing for the Bengals or Browns. Kids in Kentucky are divided about basketball and football. I think football has come a long way in Kentucky, but has not reached the dominance level that it has in Ohio.

    I know it may seem simplistic, but if you want Kentucky to be as competitive as Ohio in football, the state, the schools, the fans, the parents, and the players have to make it a priority to build their football programs. This means great facilities, great atmosphere, scheduling other events around football, and using media sources.

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