Why doesn't Ohio have the public/private problem with their football?

Page 2 of Correct me if I am wrong but last year five of the six state champions were public schools. Add to that both the teams in the large school (D1) finals ... 59 comments | 5419 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #16
    newarkcatholicfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 00
    Location
    OLD AMERICA
    Posts
    38,851

    Private schools are losing a lot of students and those who are leaving seem to be the ones who play sports. I think this has evened the field some. I also think open enrollment has added to the field being more even.
    Advertisement

  2. #17
    kydlineguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    On your computer screen
    Posts
    287

    I am now going into my sixth year of coaching. My first three years in NKY and the last two years and this coming season in Ohio. Since my freshman football season at Thomas More in 1998, it seems like we had more Ohio guys than anything, (all the coaches were from Ohio, except one) and all I kept hearing about was this great thing called "Ohio High School Football". I always knew that I was going to coach football and I always wanted to know what it was that made Ohio great. I read books, magazines, internet articles and heard coaches speak from Ohio hoping to find out just what made Ohio so great.

    In 2004, I accepted a coaching job at an Ohio private school. Although it was a much lesser football school by any standards, they still played in a very competitive league and it was Ohio. So I get to thinking to myself "Great, I am going to begin to see what it is that makes Ohio High School Football so great. I bet they got the answer to everything concerning football."

    I bet I took a million notes when I got home after practice everyday my first year. Thinking that all these notes would be the pieces to the puzzle to figure out what it is that makes it so special. As I came to realize now in my third year, I wasted a lot of paper.

    I am now in my third year at a second Ohio school, I have learned that a trap is a trap, a counter is a counter, a power is a power, a sweep is a sweep, and a zone is a zone. It is done in Ohio as it is in Kentucky, the coaches just use different lingo and put there own little tweaks in it. All are sound and all can be defeated. So when I realized that after my second year and coaching with Moeller grads, Princeton Grads, Elder grads, and so on, football is football. It is running, blocking, defeating blocks, tackling and taking care of the football.

    Last year when I was taking the Lineman for our pregame warm-ups for our first game and I look in the crowd and I see the place packed like a sardine can. I see all people of all ages and groups, wheather they had a relative on the team or not, supporting their community. So I think to myself "Well they have community pride, that's the answer". I don't think that is the answer either. Just look at Ft. Mitchell, Ft. Thomas, the school communities of New Cath and Cov Cath. All of these schools would fit right in with any community in Ohio.

    The communities I have just mentioned are schools who have great PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION, to not just their football programs, but to the school, they also have numerous state championships to prove it. Ohio is where pro football started, home of the NFL Hall of Fame. It is home to great Football Coaching legends such as Woody Hayes and Bo Schembecler (sp), storied programs like Ohio State and Miami Univeristy (the cradle of coaches), you have a high number of Ohio Natives in the NFL Football Hall of Fame. Kentucky really doesn't have that.

    Adolph Rupp is our dead legend and Rick Pitino is our living legend. I wonder how many people really do know that Paul "Bear" Bryant was the only coach in the history of UK to lead the Wildcats to an SEC title (1950 I believe) and snap Oklahoma's 34 game winning streak in a bowl game (forgot which one).

    Football is an expectation in Ohio, all the way from the town/school administration to the sideline managers. I was taken by this realization as a native Kentucky boy when I also found out the over 700 schools in Ohio play football, just over 200 in Kentucky. So regardless of Public or Private, the pattern that rest right now is PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION.

    Can you imagine what Newport and Holmes could be if the communities where to come together and support football. They would be amazing because the best athletes are in the halls of the schools and on the streets, not on the field.

    In conclusion, If Kentucky wants to kill the Public/Private debate, all they have to do is go to a Highlands, Cov Cath, New Cath, or Beechwood game. See how the community supports football. If every school ever reached their full potential for support of the football programs, Kentucky would be a dangerous state to compete against. KENTUCKY HAS THE TOOLS WITH GREAT COACHES AND PLAYERS! PUBLIC OR PRIVATE DOES NOT MATTER, IT IS ABOUT PRIDE, LOYALTY, AND TRADTION. If every school has that, then there wouldn't be a public or private debate, just the on going question:

    "Is Ohio better than Kentucky?", I'll leave that one up to you.

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 07
    Location
    Transplanted Buckeye looking for a football to throw.
    Posts
    153

    Kydlineguy, I agree with you, as I had stated earlier in my post. Communities in Ohio are behind their sports. It is not just football either, which is the great thing. I lived in Western Ohio for a time and the communities there were crazy about every sport. Gyms would be packed for volleyball as well as football in the fall. In the winter, basketball and wrestling would keep the communities fired up. I broadcasted games for a local radio station in the Western part of the state when I lived there and during the winter the gyms were packed to capacity. In the spring, people would follow the baseball, softball, and track teams. I believe that if communities in Kentucky would support their sports, like they do in Ohio, the public/private debate would become a thing of the past. In Ohio, nearly every community supports their athletics. In Kentucky, it is hit and miss. It is all about community support!!!!

  4. #19
    UKBLUE1964's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 04
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    3,962

    Quote Originally Posted by kydlineguy
    I am now going into my sixth year of coaching. My first three years in NKY and the last two years and this coming season in Ohio. Since my freshman football season at Thomas More in 1998, it seems like we had more Ohio guys than anything, (all the coaches were from Ohio, except one) and all I kept hearing about was this great thing called "Ohio High School Football". I always knew that I was going to coach football and I always wanted to know what it was that made Ohio great. I read books, magazines, internet articles and heard coaches speak from Ohio hoping to find out just what made Ohio so great.

    In 2004, I accepted a coaching job at an Ohio private school. Although it was a much lesser football school by any standards, they still played in a very competitive league and it was Ohio. So I get to thinking to myself "Great, I am going to begin to see what it is that makes Ohio High School Football so great. I bet they got the answer to everything concerning football."

    I bet I took a million notes when I got home after practice everyday my first year. Thinking that all these notes would be the pieces to the puzzle to figure out what it is that makes it so special. As I came to realize now in my third year, I wasted a lot of paper.

    I am now in my third year at a second Ohio school, I have learned that a trap is a trap, a counter is a counter, a power is a power, a sweep is a sweep, and a zone is a zone. It is done in Ohio as it is in Kentucky, the coaches just use different lingo and put there own little tweaks in it. All are sound and all can be defeated. So when I realized that after my second year and coaching with Moeller grads, Princeton Grads, Elder grads, and so on, football is football. It is running, blocking, defeating blocks, tackling and taking care of the football.

    Last year when I was taking the Lineman for our pregame warm-ups for our first game and I look in the crowd and I see the place packed like a sardine can. I see all people of all ages and groups, wheather they had a relative on the team or not, supporting their community. So I think to myself "Well they have community pride, that's the answer". I don't think that is the answer either. Just look at Ft. Mitchell, Ft. Thomas, the school communities of New Cath and Cov Cath. All of these schools would fit right in with any community in Ohio.

    The communities I have just mentioned are schools who have great PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION, to not just their football programs, but to the school, they also have numerous state championships to prove it. Ohio is where pro football started, home of the NFL Hall of Fame. It is home to great Football Coaching legends such as Woody Hayes and Bo Schembecler (sp), storied programs like Ohio State and Miami Univeristy (the cradle of coaches), you have a high number of Ohio Natives in the NFL Football Hall of Fame. Kentucky really doesn't have that.

    Adolph Rupp is our dead legend and Rick Pitino is our living legend. I wonder how many people really do know that Paul "Bear" Bryant was the only coach in the history of UK to lead the Wildcats to an SEC title (1950 I believe) and snap Oklahoma's 34 game winning streak in a bowl game (forgot which one).

    Football is an expectation in Ohio, all the way from the town/school administration to the sideline managers. I was taken by this realization as a native Kentucky boy when I also found out the over 700 schools in Ohio play football, just over 200 in Kentucky. So regardless of Public or Private, the pattern that rest right now is PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION.

    Can you imagine what Newport and Holmes could be if the communities where to come together and support football. They would be amazing because the best athletes are in the halls of the schools and on the streets, not on the field.

    In conclusion, If Kentucky wants to kill the Public/Private debate, all they have to do is go to a Highlands, Cov Cath, New Cath, or Beechwood game. See how the community supports football. If every school ever reached their full potential for support of the football programs, Kentucky would be a dangerous state to compete against. KENTUCKY HAS THE TOOLS WITH GREAT COACHES AND PLAYERS! PUBLIC OR PRIVATE DOES NOT MATTER, IT IS ABOUT PRIDE, LOYALTY, AND TRADTION. If every school has that, then there wouldn't be a public or private debate, just the on going question:

    "Is Ohio better than Kentucky?", I'll leave that one up to you.

    All very good points and it all comes back to one thing. When Ohio has 4 times as many schools playing football that means there is more boys to choose from.
    Another thing is schools in Ohio put alot of money into Football including coaches so all kids from grade school up can be coached by more experienced coaches as they enter Junior High School and High School.
    Public schools in the area where I live (Columbus) are very competitive year in and year out against top Private schools. And those schools put alot of money into their football programs such as: Jonathan Alder, Hilliard Davidson, Upper Arlington, Olentangy, Kilbourne, Lancaster, Newark Grove City ; all put alot money into football and in return make alot off of Football.
    So is Ohio better than Kentucky? Yes but only because of more kids that play and more money, BUT!! If you took 200 some schools in Ohio that have the same enrollment as all of the Kentucky schools and play against each other it would be pretty even. It is the other 600 schools that play football in Ohio is the difference.

  5. #20

    Join Date
    Jan 03
    Location
    Have love in your heart and an ax in your hand. Hug and swing discriminately- Jim Wendler
    Posts
    14,830

    Quote Originally Posted by UKBLUE1964
    All very good points and it all comes back to one thing. When Ohio has 4 times as many schools playing football that means there is more boys to choose from.
    Another thing is schools in Ohio put alot of money into Football including coaches so all kids from grade school up can be coached by more experienced coaches as they enter Junior High School and High School.
    Public schools in the area where I live (Columbus) are very competitive year in and year out against top Private schools. And those schools put alot of money into their football programs such as: Jonathan Alder, Hilliard Davidson, Upper Arlington, Olentangy, Kilbourne, Lancaster, Newark Grove City ; all put alot money into football and in return make alot off of Football.
    So is Ohio better than Kentucky? Yes but only because of more kids that play and more money, BUT!! If you took 200 some schools in Ohio that have the same enrollment as all of the Kentucky schools and play against each other it would be pretty even. It is the other 600 schools that play football in Ohio is the difference.
    You completely missed the point of his post. Great post Kydline.

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Being a role model
    Posts
    34,456

    Quote Originally Posted by kydlineguy
    I am now going into my sixth year of coaching. My first three years in NKY and the last two years and this coming season in Ohio. Since my freshman football season at Thomas More in 1998, it seems like we had more Ohio guys than anything, (all the coaches were from Ohio, except one) and all I kept hearing about was this great thing called "Ohio High School Football". I always knew that I was going to coach football and I always wanted to know what it was that made Ohio great. I read books, magazines, internet articles and heard coaches speak from Ohio hoping to find out just what made Ohio so great.

    In 2004, I accepted a coaching job at an Ohio private school. Although it was a much lesser football school by any standards, they still played in a very competitive league and it was Ohio. So I get to thinking to myself "Great, I am going to begin to see what it is that makes Ohio High School Football so great. I bet they got the answer to everything concerning football."

    I bet I took a million notes when I got home after practice everyday my first year. Thinking that all these notes would be the pieces to the puzzle to figure out what it is that makes it so special. As I came to realize now in my third year, I wasted a lot of paper.

    I am now in my third year at a second Ohio school, I have learned that a trap is a trap, a counter is a counter, a power is a power, a sweep is a sweep, and a zone is a zone. It is done in Ohio as it is in Kentucky, the coaches just use different lingo and put there own little tweaks in it. All are sound and all can be defeated. So when I realized that after my second year and coaching with Moeller grads, Princeton Grads, Elder grads, and so on, football is football. It is running, blocking, defeating blocks, tackling and taking care of the football.

    Last year when I was taking the Lineman for our pregame warm-ups for our first game and I look in the crowd and I see the place packed like a sardine can. I see all people of all ages and groups, wheather they had a relative on the team or not, supporting their community. So I think to myself "Well they have community pride, that's the answer". I don't think that is the answer either. Just look at Ft. Mitchell, Ft. Thomas, the school communities of New Cath and Cov Cath. All of these schools would fit right in with any community in Ohio.

    The communities I have just mentioned are schools who have great PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION, to not just their football programs, but to the school, they also have numerous state championships to prove it. Ohio is where pro football started, home of the NFL Hall of Fame. It is home to great Football Coaching legends such as Woody Hayes and Bo Schembecler (sp), storied programs like Ohio State and Miami Univeristy (the cradle of coaches), you have a high number of Ohio Natives in the NFL Football Hall of Fame. Kentucky really doesn't have that.

    Adolph Rupp is our dead legend and Rick Pitino is our living legend. I wonder how many people really do know that Paul "Bear" Bryant was the only coach in the history of UK to lead the Wildcats to an SEC title (1950 I believe) and snap Oklahoma's 34 game winning streak in a bowl game (forgot which one).

    Football is an expectation in Ohio, all the way from the town/school administration to the sideline managers. I was taken by this realization as a native Kentucky boy when I also found out the over 700 schools in Ohio play football, just over 200 in Kentucky. So regardless of Public or Private, the pattern that rest right now is PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION.

    Can you imagine what Newport and Holmes could be if the communities where to come together and support football. They would be amazing because the best athletes are in the halls of the schools and on the streets, not on the field.

    In conclusion, If Kentucky wants to kill the Public/Private debate, all they have to do is go to a Highlands, Cov Cath, New Cath, or Beechwood game. See how the community supports football. If every school ever reached their full potential for support of the football programs, Kentucky would be a dangerous state to compete against. KENTUCKY HAS THE TOOLS WITH GREAT COACHES AND PLAYERS! PUBLIC OR PRIVATE DOES NOT MATTER, IT IS ABOUT PRIDE, LOYALTY, AND TRADTION. If every school has that, then there wouldn't be a public or private debate, just the on going question:

    "Is Ohio better than Kentucky?", I'll leave that one up to you.
    Very nice post.
    Good job.

  7. #22
    kydlineguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    On your computer screen
    Posts
    287

    The point of the post was not to ask if Ohio was better than Kentucky, the point of the post is if every program had PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION, like Highlands, Cov Cath, Beechwood, New Cath, St. X, Trinity, Mayfield, Bowling Green, Paducah Tighlman, so on and so forth, PUBLIC VS. PRIVATE WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE! it would only be a matter of who has better players. Not coaching, or public vs. private. THIS IS WHY OHIO DOES NOT HAVE THIS ISSUE. Ironton use to have an awesome website JUST FOR FOOTBALL (it got shut down after Coach Lutz resigned last year). Those people love football. Ironton is a little river town that takes a lot of pride in their football program. THEY LOVE FOOTBALL AND THE COMMUNITY IS WHAT DRIVES THE PROGRAM, NOT WHEATHER IT IS PUBLIC OR PRIVATE.

    My first true eye-opening experiance came in 1999 when I was a player at Thomas More and we had a bye week. I had a teammate who was an Elder grad and he invited me to go to the game with him, his parents were season ticket holders, yes season ticket holders. Talk about an experiance. It was a GCL game and talk about a "Full House" effect. That crowd was the twelfth man, as it states in "The Pit", the purple nation was at its best that night and I will never forget it.

  8. #23
    kydlineguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    On your computer screen
    Posts
    287

    One last thing before I leve this thread alone, one team can have 80-100 players and the other one could have only 30. THE RULES OF FOOTBALL ONLY ALLOW YOU TO PUT 11 ON THE FIELD, AND MAY THE BEST 11 WIN. I'M HERE TO TELL YOU, I WAS ON THAT TEAM WITH ONLY 30 AND WE WON QUITE A FEW GAMES IN HIGH SCHOOL BEACAUSE WE HAD THE BEST 11!

  9. #24

    Join Date
    Jun 07
    Location
    Transplanted Buckeye looking for a football to throw.
    Posts
    153

    I still have to agree with Kydlineguy. It does come down to community support of the programs in Ohio. It is not the number of schools. Nearly every community in Ohio really backs their program. The only reason I can say this is because I grew up 30 minutes from Columbus and have lived in other parts of Ohio. People in Ohio follow their teams religiously, whatever the season. I do not see that here in Kentucky. I am not sure why. My only explanation is that most schools in Kentucky only care about one sport, basketball. If you look at the basketball following of most schools in Kentucky, you would see that people are going to follow their school's team. Beyond basketball, it depends on whether the program has a tradition of success. Ohio is not that way! There are programs in the state of Ohio that do not have great traditions, but they still bring in a lot of fan support.

    Unfortunately, I am not sure how you get communities to back their teams. All of their teams! That is the key to possibly ending the public v. private debate. When communities take pride in their school's programs, athletic and academic, then I think you will see the tide turn. Until that time, we will continue this debate and this problem. I really wish this were not the case, but I feel that for the forseeable future Kentucky, in some sports, will have to continue the debate about public v. private.

  10. #25
    leatherneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 01
    Posts
    10,828

    Quote Originally Posted by theguru
    Correct me if I am wrong but last year five of the six state champions were public schools. Add to that both the teams in the large school (D1) finals were public schools and three out of four of the semi-final large school teams were public schools.

    How come the public football schools in Ohio don't have the problem the public football schools in KY have? I realize this is just one year but as of late the the public and private schools in Ohio are pretty even at the top levels unlike KY where the top public schools are for the most part a JOKE compared to T and X. I am not knocking on T and X here but I would strongly assert that they are generally not as good as the top 4 or 5 private schools in Ohio year in and year out which means that the public schools in KY are no where near as good as the public schools in Ohio. Why are the public schools in KY such a weak link?

    Could it be that Ohio is a football state (with a lot of emphasis on doing well in football) vs. Kentucky where the emphasis is more on basketball than it is on football at many public schools?
    The bottom line is Prop 2 is not the solution for the public schools in KY, the solution is somewhere in the mirror for weak KY public football schools. Where in the mirror at your school is the million dollar question.

    Thoughts? Comments?
    As to the bolded part: bingo, we have a winner. The public schools in Ky have only just recently gotten onto the football band wagon (unfortunately some still have not), whereas the private schools and several of the public schools have been on the band wagon for years. That is why a majority of the championship rings are on the fingers of primarily private school graduates and a few public school graduates. Nothing more and nothing less. In Ohio, because of the long popularity of football, the public schools have been on the band wagon for decades, thus they can compete well with the privates. Proposal 2 and other similar proposals designed to hurt the privates are just attempts to compensate for past committment failures.

    I don't think we've seen the private school domination in boys basketball like we seen in football. Why you ask? Because the public schools have been committed to boys basketball for decades. Why the private schools domination in girls basketball you ask? Because a large majority of public schools have resisted Title IX and before Title IX, placed little if any emphasis on girls sports. If you talked to the KHSAA and asked them which schools still have Title IX problems, there are still a lot of public schools not in compliance and some, amazingly, defiantly so. Whereas the private schools have long placed a commitment on girls sports.

    I think if we examined the public vs private championship ratio in any sport in Ky, I think you are going to find the underlying reason is going to be the amount of historical commitment that the schools have made to that sport.

  11. #26
    kydlineguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    On your computer screen
    Posts
    287

    The communities I have just mentioned are schools who have great PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION, to not just their football programs, but to the school, they also have numerous state championships to prove it. Ohio is where pro football started, home of the NFL Hall of Fame. It is home to great Football Coaching legends such as Woody Hayes and Bo Schembecler (sp), storied programs like Ohio State and Miami Univeristy (the cradle of coaches), you have a high number of Ohio Natives in the NFL Football Hall of Fame. Kentucky really doesn't have that.

    Adolph Rupp is our dead legend and Rick Pitino is our living legend. I wonder how many people really do know that Paul "Bear" Bryant was the only coach in the history of UK to lead the Wildcats to an SEC title (1950 I believe) and snap Oklahoma's 34 game winning streak in a bowl game (forgot which one).


    Like I mentioned before! Good point Leatherneck

  12. #27
    leatherneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 01
    Posts
    10,828

    Quote Originally Posted by kydlineguy
    The communities I have just mentioned are schools who have great PRIDE, LOYALTY, and TRADITION, to not just their football programs, but to the school, they also have numerous state championships to prove it. Ohio is where pro football started, home of the NFL Hall of Fame. It is home to great Football Coaching legends such as Woody Hayes and Bo Schembecler (sp), storied programs like Ohio State and Miami Univeristy (the cradle of coaches), you have a high number of Ohio Natives in the NFL Football Hall of Fame. Kentucky really doesn't have that.

    Adolph Rupp is our dead legend and Rick Pitino is our living legend. I wonder how many people really do know that Paul "Bear" Bryant was the only coach in the history of UK to lead the Wildcats to an SEC title (1950 I believe) and snap Oklahoma's 34 game winning streak in a bowl game (forgot which one).


    Like I mentioned before! Good point Leatherneck
    You and I are in lock step agreement.

  13. #28

    Join Date
    Jan 07
    Posts
    82

    Quote Originally Posted by theguru
    Correct me if I am wrong but last year five of the six state champions were public schools. Add to that both the teams in the large school (D1) finals were public schools and three out of four of the semi-final large school teams were public schools.

    How come the public football schools in Ohio don't have the problem the public football schools in KY have?
    Ohio may have the same problems, but they are not complaining about it like KY.
    Ohio Schools have the Pride and Loyalty that KYDLINEGUY talks about. They would rather work a little harder and try to win a state championship than complain and try to get rid of the schools that have won the championships instead. They learn from losses and continue to work on their weaknesses and come back stronger, with a chip on their shoulder ready to battle for the championship the next year.

  14. #29
    kydlineguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    On your computer screen
    Posts
    287

    Quote Originally Posted by WiseBred
    Ohio may have the same problems, but they are not complaining about it like KY.
    Ohio Schools have the Pride and Loyalty that KYDLINEGUY talks about. They would rather work a little harder and try to win a state championship than complain and try to get rid of the schools that have won the championships instead. They learn from losses and continue to work on their weaknesses and come back stronger, with a chip on their shoulder ready to battle for the championship the next year.


  15. #30
    rockmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 02
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    54,683

    Pride, Loyalty, Discipline, Achievement.

    Every Trinity players helmet has the decal.

    My son has a decal from his helmet on the window of his car.

    When you don't just say it, but live it, then you're successful.

    Sorry if anyone is offended, but it works.

Top