Fayette County Flu Hits Jefferson County?

Page 5 of Originally posted by ram95 Besides if dcards quote about financial assistance isn't true then why don't you show some examples of Non-Catholic, ex-publ... 105 comments | 20406 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #61

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    Originally posted by ram95
    Besides if dcards quote about financial assistance isn't true then why don't you show some examples of Non-Catholic, ex-public school stars that aren't receiving assistance? If you say his statement is void of any truth, fine back it up.
    I believe Sports Fanatic made the comment that dcards does not know what he is talking about saying the athletically gifted have more of advantage getting scholarships because, in reality, he couldn't know what he is talking about. That is confidential information to everyone except the recipients, the financial aid committee and any organization which has the right to audit Trinity such as the KHSAA or the Association of Southern Schools and Colleges. So I would argue that Sports Fanatic couldn't find a non-athlete who receives aid either because Trinity doesn't post this information.

    I know in a previous thread, someone made a stupid comment that Trinity should have to publish who their aid recipients are. Wouldn't that kinda infringe on those families privacy? Doing so would be just as disrepectful as if the government published all recipients of government aid (welfare, food stamps, housing subsidies, etc) in the news papers.

    So, I agree with Sports Fanatic that it is improper for someone to make such a claim when they could not possibly have the evidence to back it up. Of course you have to give quite a bit of reliance to someone who says they heard from their friend's, brother's, niehbor's, uncle's, dog's, cousin's, mother-in-law who said she heard Trinity's all state players all receive aid.
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  2. #62

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    Originally posted by dcard
    Alumni will give to a program that demonstrates the ability to win on the field and/or court. Without quality athletes it is hard to produce wins. People don't give or support just because that is their beloved high school. They want to see a winner.
    I disagree, alumni will give to a school which they are proud of and they believe had a possitive effect on their lives regardless of the schools ability to win on the field or court. Trinity Alum correctly mentioned that Trinity was able to over come the nay sayers that Trinity could never reach its goal of $3.3 million and actually exceeded that goal. This occured during the Servino Era when Trinity's win/loss record was bad relative to Trinity's history, the football team just had a losing season, and St. X had beaten Trinity several years in a row. You would think that alumni contribution would take a drastic drop, but they didn't, the alumni wouldn't let lack of athletic success change they way they felt about Trinity.

    Why don't public school alumni feel such dedication? I don't know, I know I will always feel a certain indebtedness towards Trinity for what I got out of my four years there and my experience as an alumnus. That is why each year I gladly open up my check book for Trinity along with numerous other alumni from Trinity, St. X, and pretty much all private schools.
    Last edited by Bert; Jan 16, 03 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #63
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    Originally posted by Bert
    Why don't public school alumni feel such dedication?
    Probably because they feel that they are already "donating" pretty heavily to their alma maters, whether they like it or not.

  4. #64
    ram95's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bert
    I believe Sports Fanatic made the comment that dcards does not know what he is talking about saying the athletically gifted have more of advantage getting scholarships because, in reality, he couldn't know what he is talking about. That is confidential information to everyone except the recipients, the financial aid committee and any organization which has the right to audit Trinity such as the KHSAA or the Association of Southern Schools and Colleges. So I would argue that Sports Fanatic couldn't find a non-athlete who receives aid either because Trinity doesn't post this information.

    I know in a previous thread, someone made a stupid comment that Trinity should have to publish who their aid recipients are. Wouldn't that kinda infringe on those families privacy? Doing so would be just as disrepectful as if the government published all recipients of government aid (welfare, food stamps, housing subsidies, etc) in the news papers.

    So, I agree with Sports Fanatic that it is improper for someone to make such a claim when they could not possibly have the evidence to back it up. Of course you have to give quite a bit of reliance to someone who says they heard from their friend's, brother's, niehbor's, uncle's, dog's, cousin's, mother-in-law who said she heard Trinity's all state players all receive aid.
    You are right you can't mention those that do recieve aid. We never said you should. Please read the quote again!!!!! I said name some of these Star players that aren't catholic, and went to public schools who's parents are paying the whole bill with no aid. But if you are going to call dcards statement false then just mention a few that don't receive aid. If you can't then dcards statement is as valid as your denial.

    As far as your hearsay comment your right, this is all hearsay, but so is everything you are saying. Since none of this can be confirmed or denied I tend to believe those who I know DO have access to the information. So I will believe them. Listen this is a moot point. You aren't going to change what I think and I can't prove my point without breaking rules/privacy laws. So drop it!

    As far as the ignorant comment on public schools alumni not supporting their schools, I just gave $100 dollars to my Alumni fund and have spent many hours each fall helping out the team and I have done so since I graduated. Don't make assumptions! And remember Trinity and St. X have more well to do students to start with than the public schools or even the other catholic schools, after all there won't be a Marshall complex at Desales or Holy Cross anytime soon either. These are Catholic Schools why can't they raise that kind of money if Trinity did it? Why didn't Holy Rosary save it's self if fund raising can be done so easy? Does the diocese still own Presentation or does Spalding? You see this is not a Catholic or private School vs. Public school thing this is a Have vs have not thing. Those two (t and X) schools tend to draw the richer kids, catholic or otherwise, and therefore have a better base from which to draw funds.
    Last edited by ram95; Jan 16, 03 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #65
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    It costs almost twice as much per year to attend X or T compared to Catholic elementary schools. Example: the parishoner tuition rate at St Raphael is between $1300 and $3500 per year (depending on how many children in a family attend school there) while X and T are about $6500 per year. I strongly suspect that most of the kids attending public high schools after Catholic middle are there because of the steep increase in cost, not because they were recruited to play sports.

    I have some questions for those familiar with Catholic high school system. What is the process for determining who is eligible for need-based financial aid (and how much of the tuition is covered)? Is it a strict formula? Is it a committee? If so, who has input? What factors are considered?

  6. #66

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    H

    I will tell what I know of my experience with Trinity & Assumption.

    A parent fills out a financial aid form in February & submits it to the school along with a copy of their tax return from the previous year.

    The forms must be in by March, when a committee review them.
    Some of the determining factors are:
    1. Obviously, family's income
    2. Number of kids in Catholic schools
    3. Parent's are allowed to submit in writing what they consider to be "special considerations"

    A committee review them and assigns aid. The committe is made up of Alumni, School representatives, Board representatives and Parents.

    The amount of aid to the family is NOT announced until well after you choose your payment plan and have it approved by the company they use to collect the tuition payments. You have to choose you payment plan when you pre-register your child for school. The options are 1 lump sum, giving you a discount, 1/2 at the beginning of the year, and the other 1/2 before the 2nd semester starts, 12 monthly payments or 10 monthly payments.

    No family is awarded full aid.

    Assumption does not use diocesean dollars for aid, only what they raise through fundraisers. However the form you fill out is the standard form used by the Archdiocese.

    If you are not awarded financial aid, you are allowed to "appeal" and, if there is funding left over, the committee will review your application again and make a determination of aid.

    There are scholarships available, based on criteria outlined clearly by their donors. The scholarships are set up and administered separately from the financial aid process.

    Each school clearly publishes this information in writing and on their website.

    I'd like to address 2 other points I read.

    1. The Archdiocese does not run any of the Catholic High Schools.
    In addition, in grade school, the "tuition" is actually stewardship, as the parish funds and administers the school. This stewardship is tax deductable, whereas Catholic High School tuition is not.

    2. I feel that given the overall scheme of things, I not only pay to educate my children, but ALL children in the Public School system.
    So, I'm paying tuition to my childrens' respective schools, contributing to fund raising efforts, volunteering my time, AND paying my taxes to fund the public schools and their programs. So, in essence, it's a slap in my face to insinuate that my kids have an advantage because they go to private schools! And to say your not going to let your kid play sports against my kid because of their percieved advantage is downright childish!

    The parents of public school kids that send their kids to a private high school make sacrifices to send their kids there, regardless of any financial aid they migh recieve. If they choose to do that, is it Trinity, or X, or Assumption, or Collegiate's fault? No! It's a choice each parent makes to do what they think is best for their child.

    I personally know of one child on financial aid that does NOT play a sport, and he's not exceptional academically, either. His mother made the choice because she felt her son needed more discipline than he was getting in the Public School system. I also know of a football player who is NOT on financial aid of any sort---MY son.

    So, to me, the logic is lost.

    OK...I'll stop now before I make any more enemies.

  7. #67

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    OK...now the task is to come up with enough games for a schedlue for the Trinity Frosh and JV

    May I suggest

    Manual
    St. X
    Lexington Catholic
    Cincinnati Elder
    Boone County
    Dixie Heights
    Massilon (sp?)
    Cincy X

    Any thoughts?

    Looking at this...how can Trinity be hurt by the "boycott"?

  8. #68

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    Originally posted by ram95
    You are right you can't mention those that do recieve aid. We never said you should. Please read the quote again!!!!!.!
    You are correct that no one has mentioned it YET! I knew it would have eventually so that is why I brought it up.![/B][/QUOTE]


    Originally posted by ram95

    As far as the ignorant comment on public schools alumni not supporting their schools, I just gave $100 dollars to my Alumni fund and have spent many hours each fall helping out the team and I have done so since I graduated. Don't make assumptions!
    OK, I would admit, my comment was incorrect because I made an all inclusive comment that NO public school alumni support their alma maters. Let me restate it by saying, only a very small minority of public school alumni support their alma maters. I think even you would agree with me on that comment.

    On a side note, please allow me to commend you for your genirosity towards Manual. Manual is an outstanding school and I can understand your dedication towards the school. Had I not been able to muster up the money to attend Trinity from cutting lawns, washing and staining decks, bagging groceries, flipping burgers, and begging from my parents, Manual was my top "free" choice. If there were more alumni such as yourself, education in this country would be much better. - Now back to our discussion.

    [i]And remember Trinity and St. X have more well to do students to start with than the public schools or even the other catholic schools, after all there won't be a Marshall complex at Desales or Holy Cross anytime soon either. These are Catholic Schools why can't they raise that kind of money if Trinity did it? Why didn't Holy Rosary save it's self if fund raising can be done so easy? Does the diocese still own Presentation or does Spalding? You see this is not a Catholic or private School vs. Public school thing this is a Have vs have not thing. Those two (t and X) schools tend to draw the richer kids, catholic or otherwise, and therefore have a better base from which to draw funds. [/B]
    I will agree with you that Trinity being located in the east end does allow it to attract more well off families than Desales, Holy Cross, Mercy, Pres, and the former Holy Rosary. And while I would not consider St. X in the "rich" east end, rather being on the northern section of Poplar Level Road it is kinda wedged between the south end, Old Louisville, Germantown, and many other not wealthy neihborhoods, its alumni do tend to live in the east end even though they may been as fortunate as teenagers living near St. X.

    So with all of that I wrote above let me say I will agree with half of your comment on why Trinity can afford the Marshall Bldg. The other half is sheer enrollment. I work with two alumni from Holy Cross (back then it was called Bishop David and Angela Merici and yes they both give to the school), he told me last year Holy Cross only graduated 42 kids (actually he got that from reading the Record's (archdioces paper) announcement of their graduating class. I would assume that means the schools entire enrollement is less than 200. Trinity and X will graduate over 300 kids for the next several years. Schools with less than 500 kids are not going to be able to afford Marshall Bldgs even if alumni do contribute heavily. You just don't have the tuition coming in to support the type of capital expenditures. Tuition is the primary source of funds, alumni donations merely supplement it. So again, I agree with you half way.

  9. #69
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    I don't think you made any enemies RockMom!! I apprieciate your information.

    I have no doubt that most of the Trinity football team parents pay all or most of their tuition!! But I think that it is fair to say many players, like many others at Trinity would not be able to attend if they weren't given aid.

    And you are right the Archdiocese does not run any school, but please correct me if I am mistaken, they do in fact own some of them don't they, I mean whenever I give money to the archdioese that does include money that does go to property and the youth sports leagues. Thus the reason my brothers and I could play for St. Margret Mary when we attended Ephiany and went to public Schools. At that is what they say some of the money I pay goes for, and like you since I inadvertantly support Catholic Schools I would be upset if they did not play Manual.

    Trinity and St. X fans have a right to be upset about this boycott, it it is stupid and will be ineffective. But the public schools aren't doing this for no reason either. There are a lot of real issues that should be discussed. But I disagree with the Boycott.

    And I do agree Bert that enrollment has something to do with it, but success breeds enrollment and wealth hardly ever hurts success. Not to say all T or St. X families are rich, lord knows they aren't I know I am related to many of them
    Last edited by ram95; Jan 16, 03 at 06:48 PM.

  10. #70
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    Originally posted by rockmom
    ...how can Trinity be hurt by the "boycott"?
    I guess they cant...........so why do people keep arguing that it makes no sense and that the JCPS will regret it. Its not going to hurt JCPS schools either........ other than the fact that one day i may be asked to exclude a friend from my schedule. Other than a few coaches whom i respect and enjoy competing against i could care less if i have a private school on my schedule or not. I think you're going to find that a lot of coaches in the JCPS dont feel that playing private schools make or break their program................except maybe Field Hockey. This group stands to lose something since there are only a few schools in Jefferson Co. that participate, and we know who they are.

  11. #71

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    Originally posted by ram95
    And you are right the Archdiocese does not run any school, but please correct me if I am mistaken, they do in fact own some of them don't they, I mean whenever I give money to the archdioese that does include money that does go to property and the youth sports leagues.
    I don't believe the Archdiocese supports the Catholic High Schools. I know it does not support St. X since X is owned and operated by the Xaverian Brothers and Trinity was spun off as a seperate entity in 1994 so it doesn't support Trinity. I am not arguing, I have always assumed the high schools were expected to be self sufficient. If so, why did they sell off Pres and Holy Rosary to Spalding? I assumed they were being candid when the Archbishop said the schools were not able to maintain themselves due to falling enrollement and decided to close/sell the schools. Spalding made the mistake of thinking they could turn Holy Rosary around enrollement wise. Turned out to be wrong for Holy Rosary, we shall see with Pres. With Holy Rosary closing, maybe Pres will pick up a few of the students who would have gone to Holy Rosary. I don't know????

  12. #72

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    Originally posted by ram95
    I don't think you made any enemies!! I apprieciate your information.


    And you are right the Archdiocese does not run any school, but please correct me if I am mistaken, they do in fact own some of them don't they, I mean whenever I give money to the archdioese that does include money that does go to property and the youth sports leagues. Thus the reason my brothers and I could play for St. Margret Mary when we attended Ephiany and went to public Schools. At that is what they say some of the money I pay goes for, and like you since I inadvertantly support Catholic Schools I would be upset if they did not play Manual.

    Parish schools, which are grade schools, are owned by the Archdiocese. High schools, which are independent of any parish support, are not funded by the Archdiocese. I know that Mercy & Assumption are sponsored by the Sisters of Mercy, Sacred Heart by the Ursaline Sisters, Presentation is owned by Spalding University, Holy Rosary was sponsored by the Dominican Sisters until sold to Spalding, and the Boys schools are sponsored by religious orders as well.

  13. #73
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    Originally posted by LvlleTrack
    I think you're going to find that a lot of coaches in the JCPS dont feel that playing private schools make or break their program................except maybe Field Hockey. This group stands to lose something since there are only a few schools in Jefferson Co. that participate, and we know who they are.
    What do you mean? I don't know who they are, Manual has one and since they aren't in this then it doen't hurt our girls. Who else has Field hockey? Since this might hurt them that is a valid question for this thread.

  14. #74
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    Im not absolutly sure of the numbers but Eastern , Central, Manual, Ballard, Seneca....are the few i know off the top of my head. I believe there are only 16 schools that play and most are private schools. Its not a sanctioned KHSAA sport so im sure they will continue to play, they really have no choice if they want to compete

  15. #75
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    (reply to Bert and Rock mom) Thanks for the info. Butl in the same way we all pay money to the State and county revenue cabinet and somehow it ends up at the KHSAA and to JCPS. Money given at Mass can end up going to the Brothers and Sister's holy order and find their way to high schools. Yes the schools are self sufficent, but I was just trying to make the point that as a Catholic I inadvertantly, at fish fryes, or buy stuff from church fund raisers also help Catholic Schools even though I never went to one, the same way Catholic School Parents pay taxes. And I agree it is a raw deal for hard working parents to have to pay school taxes and not even get bus service, but I am tired of hearing that complaint at family events or social gatherings.

    (reply to Lou Track) Thanks for the info.

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