All A Classic - Getting Away From It's Roots?

I have heard purple&gold on the radio during the All A. The enrollment # has always been 425 in upper 3 grades! Why HDE says the All A is getting away from its roots???? I'm missing something; if the All A has keep the same enrollment figures over the last decade, how can they get away from their roots?
I guess it doesn't or shouldnt matter if most schools were 10-12, 9-12, or 7-12 back in 1990. The All A members chose 10-12 and have stuck with it through the years. More power to them!
Now, on Jackson County or any school that has 220 freshmen and the following year, 75 don't make it to be sophomores, someone on here said it best-----they have more troubles than playing basketball.

Knute:

Is it not getting away from the main idea if you don't adjust the enrollment figure to reflect a loss in enrollment in schools statewide? The idea was to have a tournament where your smaller schools could compete for a championship against like size schools. If you have continued enrollment decline across the state you eventually have most of the teams in the state competeing for the championship. What is the point in that? We have that now with the Sweet Sixteen. I can't believe anyone would think that keeping the number the same would mean you are staying with your roots. That is frankly ridiculous!

If a gas station owner stayed with his roots and kept gas .49 a gallon, like it was when he opened his station then that poor man has no gas station OR food in his home for that matter because he is BROKE!!!

School enrollments around the state, at least most of the state, are dropping. The original All "A" Classic took in fourth of the football playing schools in the state and the non-football playing schools that fell under the 425 enrollment category.

Now, the All "A" is taking in about a third of the football-playing schools in the state and that number is likely to continue growing without some adjustments. Cawood, a 3A school this season in football, will soon qualify for the All "A" if adjustments in the numbers aren't made.

I didn't start this thread so I never made the statement about the All "A" getting away from its roots. I enjoy the All "A" and think it is one of the greatest ideas to come along in high school sports. I just think the tournament should make some adjustments in numbers to maintain its original purpose, which is allowing true Class A schools to compete for a state title.

I have enjoyed the thread and catching up on some of the issues...involving the All A....
I'll be watching the 15th regional tournament...and after reading some of the thought's and history of this tournament....all I can say is good luck and may the All A continue to grow and give back to some of the commonwealth's smaller schools.....long live the dream of Stan Steidel...

On one hand, you don't want more teams to be represented in the ALL A . On the other hand, it has been noted on here many times - private schools dominate the All A. (I believe the UHA has less than100 students, but has won the tourney more than any other school) Has adding certain schools caused a decline in the performance of the small private schools?
And my next question, and I direct this to Purple&Gold, have you (All A) added schools? I believe the number has stayed relatively the same.
Sure, for every Whitesburg and Corbin that's been added- there's a Lexington Catholic, or Garrard County that has outgrown the All A.
HDE- maybe it your part of the state?? (I'm not sure where you are located-Eastern KY) enrollments are dropping. But this is not the case in most of the state. The county schools are growing and splitting. (Next year there will be 3 Oldhams, there are already 3 Hardins) Remember when there was only 1 school in each county? WOW, I don't think schools are dwindling!
To me it makes perfect sense to keep the # the same -425! If an independent falls to that #, add it to the All A. Why? Because I'm sure a county school will increase its enrollment the same year!

The number of school age children around the state is dropping, according to the state data center in Louisville. The largest growth will be in the 65-plus age category over the next 30 or 40 years.

The numbers from the University of Louisville
Ages 0-17
2000- 946,717
2010 - 934,432
2020 - 923,890

Areas like Hardin and Oldham (around Louisville) are growing and adding schools, as are schools in central Kentucky. Pulaski, Laurel and Jessamine have also added new schools in the last decade. But a big portion of eastern and western Kentucky are losing people, especially young people.

The number of schools in Kentucky has been dropping for 60 years, but it appears to be stabilizing now. There were 572 high schools in 1937 and there are less than 290 now.

When was there only one Hardin? That would have been a BIG school.

A few years ago there was North Hardin, East Hardin and West Hardin.

Now there is North Hardin, Central Hardin and John Hardin.

question. The numbers over the past 12 years are almost indistinguishable! Schools come and schools go. For every Lexington Catholic that outgrows the All A, there's a Whitesburg or Corbin to take it's place.
HDE, I do remember squandering an afternoon discussing the enrollment figures of schools with grades k-12, 7-12, 9-12, and 10-12. What should the All A cut-off be? How many grades should the All A use?
If you were acquainted with the All A board at that time, to even hint that we borrowed the number 425 from the KHSAA would have been laughable. ( For many posters on this board unfamiliar with the All A , the KHSAA did not have an amiable relationship with the A's inception.) Presently, Ms. Devries & the KHSAA have embraced the All A.
One declaration every fan of the All A should make, "Thank you Stan Steidel."
His vision fourteen years ago has endured and touched thousands of lives: players, band members, cheerleaders, as well as the fans!

I believe there was North Hardin (only 1) when they were state runner-up to Laurel County(only 1). Now there are 3 Hardins and 2 Laurels. Next year there will be 3 Oldhams. (All are 3A or 4A )

I agree... the small, independent schools are losing students. That's why its so important not to change the All A. If Corbin is losing students and qualifies, let them in. That's why the changes take place every 2 years in the All A.

For instance,I have heard that private schools LCA and CAL will both join Lex Cath in the next 2 years. (Too Big for the A)

The #s don't have to change for the All A to change!

East and West Hardin merged to form Central Hardin. North Hardin was never the only high school in Hardin County.

You don't want to get started with all the counties that used to have four, five or more high schools that now have only one.

The numbers are adjusted in football every two to four years and the football numbers were used when the All "A" started.

Why is Corbin in the "All A"???

Because the All "A" hasn't adjusted its numbers since 1990 and a bunch of 2A schools now qualify under the outdated enrollment guidelines.

Password,

I went to the All "A" double header last night & they were two good games. Ludlow came back from a half-time deficit to beat Calvary & Bellevue outcoached and outhustled Beechwood to come back from a 10pt. + deficit.

The crowds were good, not great, but good enough to earn a profit. If this had been a Semi-Final, obviously the crowds would have been even bigger. So your 42 people in the stands comment does not hold water for these schools.

You need to give these schools a break; the kids work just as hard as anyone else and so do the coaches; the talent isn't as good-they're a smaller public school-what do you expect?- their fans come out and support them. This tournament would do fine without the bigger schools. Your wrong again and your bias is obvious. Cut the kids some slack!!!

I cant get your thinking, do you want more schools in the All A or less schools? Where you coming from?
I really don't think it will change the fact that private schools will continue to dominate the AllA.
Oh yeah, If P&G says they looked at all the numbers before setting 425 as the cut-off, I believe him. He was and still is an original representative and why would he lie?
In fact, I believe schools were allowed to play up in class in football back then. Somerset was in Class AA if I am correct!

Did I say anyone lied?

I said that the All "A" Classic used the same numbers as Class A in football in 1990 when the tournament started. Do you not believe this is true?

What does playing up in class have to do with this debate? Playing up in class is a lot different than being allowed to play down in class (Corbin, Jackson, Whitesburg etc..)

Have you checked with your Hardin County sources about that ONE school theory?

I'm in favor of expanding the All A Classic to include teams in the 600-700 enrollment range ... in this part of the state, that would include teams like Caldwell County, Webster County, Butler County and Muhlenberg South ... those teams are rarely able to compete for regional titles and they fit the profile of the schools the All A Classic was designed to benefit.

It would toughen some of the weaker regions ... right now, the All A Classic's biggest problem in terms of acceptance is that some mediocre teams get out of smaller, weaker fields in some regions ... the Louisville schools have historically fared poorly in Richmond, and some other regions are notoriously non-competitive.

Wildcat,

Two years ago there were 42 people there at the start of a first round game.

On Monday this year there were decent crowds but not really what I would call good crowds for the schools involved.

If the crowds were good for Tuesday night thats great.

I would expect the best crowds thus far of the tourney tonight with the schools with the three largest fan bases playing plus the "home" team.

It is not about the kids and how hard they work or the coaches. They all work hard and play hard.

What I'm saying is take the large schools like St. Henry, Lloyd, and Newport out and it weakens the field and the whole tournament.

If you want to go farther and take out Holy Cross and NewCath (which are A schools in football) so that someone else can win it weakens the tournament even more.

It becomes a question of how "low" do you go for enrollment.

Yes, the smaller schools do not have much of a chance to win the 9th region All-A. But do you or the schools involved want, in essense, a Division III tournament? The teams are already complaining about having to play each other twice a year now as it is.

By the way, don't forget about the girls side of it too as they are 50% of whatever we are discussing here. The money game was the final on Saturday night with a packed gym. If you eliminate those two schools and replace them with others that most likely would not have happened.

No, I would say that the football alignment is a good gage and that Holy Cross & New Cath should stay; but the AA football schools should not be in. My opinion has nothing to do with the conference or Parochial vs. Public- just enrollment and calling it All "A".

The All A is a big deal attendance wise in the 8th Region. All three nights this week, with the finals tomorrow night (Owen County v. Gallatin County) have seen very good gates with lots of folks out. All but one game has been very competative.

Seems that the regions have the have more geography and less population (not the 9th) have better attendance. Just a theory.

FBRULES

Could be but remeber the 9th has so many more teams than the other regions. There are 4 and 5 team regions that play Thursday, Friday, and Saturday instead of Monday through Saturday. Plus you can get some mis-matches with the blind draw which doesn't help.