Should the "Blade Runner" Be Allowed in the Olympics?

Originally Posted by Starks

Why just be around their own kind when they can beat their kind and our kind? I'd double dip too if they let me.

I suspect you'dd do quite a bit if they'd let you, but that's beside the point. The fact is, this man is competing despite his disability. He is NOT double-dipping, since he is not competing in the Paralmpics -- you know, that competition for all those people you look down upon because you don't realize that two mintes from now you could be one of them....or much worse!

Originally Posted by True blue (and gold)

I think that your own post disproves the bold.

I say what people want to say and the bold was sarcasm anyways. I don't live my life worrying about what people think of me. I have better things to do.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

WOe! You really are mixed up!

So you can be sarcastic and I can't? I believe it was your sarcastic post about being with their own kind...wasn't that you? Yeah that was you. Don't get mad because my sarcasm is more biting than yours.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

You obviously have never hads to have the strength of character it reqquires to acheive against great odds and to overcome a true challenge. Otherwise, you wouldn't be making these nonsensical and bigoted remarks.

You might be right. I still wouldn't think that the bionic man should be allowed in the Olympics.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

I suspect you'dd do quite a bit if they'd let you, but that's beside the point. The fact is, this man is competing despite his disability. He is NOT double-dipping, since he is not competing in the Paralmpics -- you know, that competition for all those people you look down upon because you don't realize that two mintes from now you could be one of them....or much worse!

Who said I look down on them? Show me where I said I looked down on them. You are way too sensitive. I said he should go to the Paralympics. If that is considered looking down on him then so be it.

Originally Posted by Theoldguy

While I don't work with someone with his type of disability, I do work with those with disabilities that partake in sports. My guess is that none of you would be willing to trade places with this gentlemen on a daily basic, having to deal with his disability.

It's easy to say no but my guess is that he has worked harder to get to where is at, than anyone on BGP's who has played any sports at all.

Quite frankly and I go back to the Freshmen Tourney at CovCath in the 2012 season, where I was thrilled by the young man and his teammates at Conner and the other team (who BTW escapes me now) and how they dealt with his disability in the game!

Shame on you!

Fantastic words TOG!! And I know how difficult it must be to restrain from saying much more when faced with this kind of misguided arrogance. It's the people who look down upon others who are least prepared to cope with a time of great adversity.

Originally Posted by Starks

So you can be sarcastic and I can't? I believe it was your sarcastic post about being with their own kind...wasn't that you? Yeah that was you. Don't get mad because my sarcasm is more biting than yours.

I'm not being the least bit sarcastic....and neither are you.

Originally Posted by Starks

I say what people want to say and the bold was sarcasm anyways. I don't live my life worrying about what people think of me. I have better things to do.

No, you DON'T say what people want to say. I DON'T want to diss on people with physical challenges. I'm not alone. If that's how you get your jollies, that's up to you.

Originally Posted by Starks

Who said I look down on them? Show me where I said I looked down on them. You are way too sensitive. I said he should go to the Paralympics. If that is considered looking down on him then so be it.

It's your own words that we are reading, not anything we are reading into them. You made the statements, you should stand by them. Claiming sarcasm is just a way out.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

I'm not being the least bit sarcastic....and neither are you.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

Yes, we must get those types out of OUR Olympics! Wouldn't they rather be around their own kind anyway?

That's not sarcasm?

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

I'm not being the least bit sarcastic....and neither are you.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

It's your own words that we are reading, not anything we are reading into them. You made the statements, you should stand by them. Claiming sarcasm is just a way out.

I do stand by my statements. Sarcasm included.

Originally Posted by True blue (and gold)

No, you DON'T say what people want to say. I DON'T want to diss on people with physical challenges. I'm not alone. If that's how you get your jollies, that's up to you.

Where did I diss anyone with physical challenges? I'm not the only one who says 'No' to the Blade Runner.

Originally Posted by Theoldguy

While I don't work with someone with his type of disability, I do work with those with disabilities that partake in sports. My guess is that none of you would be willing to trade places with this gentlemen on a daily basic, having to deal with his disability.

It's easy to say no but my guess is that he has worked harder to get to where is at, than anyone on BGP's who has played any sports at all.

Quite frankly and I go back to the Freshmen Tourney at CovCath in the 2012 season, where I was thrilled by the young man and his teammates at Conner and the other team (who BTW escapes me now) and how they dealt with his disability in the game!

Shame on you!

Either keep up with the debate or move on.

Let's break down the above nonsense as it relates to this debate:

You work with and know people with disabilities. God bless you. Noble work. The fact that we would not want to trade places is like saying I wouldn't want to be obese and try to run in the Olympics. It has no bearing on this discussion.

Yes, he has worked incredibly hard. So has the cat who comes in last. So what? Again, irrelevant.

The kid from Conner made a free throw from the free throw lane. Didn't use a special ball. Didn't shoot from 5 feet. Didn't get extra tries. Made it on his own with his own God-given body. Again, irrelevant to the argument being made.

So your shame should be self-directed.

Lastly, you're trying to turn this into a pity party (oh, they work hard, no one wants to trade places, they have a disability). I GUARANTEE you Oscar would tell you to shut the hell up since all he wants to be treated like is an athlete.

Originally Posted by Theoldguy

Thing is, he is good enough with his "Fake Legs" to compete.

Just wondering who on this board wear glasses? Seems to me if you need glasses to hit a pitch, make a basket, heck to be a stripe, than you should have no problem with this gentlemen needing to overcome his handicap as you do in wearing glasses! I can go on.

Who do you know that tapes their ankles before a race/game?
Who do you know that wears a long sleeve on their shooting arm in basketball?
Who do you know that wear a batting glove when batting or fielding?

All that and more offer an advantage....and no one seems to care!

Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Clyde

While not 100% consensus this article details the advantages that Mr Pistorious gains due to the Cheetah Flex-Feet.

Key: He is off the ground for less time than elite runners and his leg swing time is less than elite runners. A quote from the article is "His limbs are 20% lighter and he swings them 20% faster." This is key. This allows him to overcome a disadvantage that he has. He can leave his foot in contact with the ground longer which overcomes the disadvantage.

Another disadvantage is that he has to start in a standing position. However, one expert said that even factoring that in Pistorius "is still seven seconds faster over 400 meters than he would be if his limbs functioned as intact biological legs do." "The technology is enabling him to do something that nobody else can do. that's the definition of an advantage."

Does Oscar Pistorius have an unfair advantage? Answer unclear - David Epstein - SI.com

I'm still waiting on some other than Sweet 16 to address the scientific data that says an advantage exists.

Originally Posted by Starks

I say what people want to say and the bold was sarcasm anyways. I don't live my life worrying about what people think of me. I have better things to do.

I'm guessing humanitarian isn't one of them?

Look people, the Olympic Committee gave him the green light, right? If they felt he had an unfair advantage would they have done so?

Originally Posted by Clyde

Lastly, you're trying to turn this into a pity party (oh, they work hard, no one wants to trade places, they have a disability). I GUARANTEE you Oscar would tell you to shut the hell up since all he wants to be treated like is an athlete.

This I can agree with.

Originally Posted by Clyde

I'm still waiting on some other than Sweet 16 to address the scientific data that says an advantage exists.

Flex-Foot Cheetahs have been used by Paralympic athletes since 1996 and have been scientifically proven to not give a net advantage over able-bodied athletes. Oscar Pistorius has been competing with the same Össur manufactured blades since 2004. The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled in 2008 that he can legally compete in IAAF athletics races wearing his ÖssurFlex-Foot Cheetahs.

Two scientific teams presented their findings to the CAS. One team of scientists, led by Peter Brüggemann had been hired by the IAAF. The findings of an American team of scientists were presented by Hugh Herr and Rodger Kram. Three judges presided: one from the IAAF, one chosen by Oscar Pistorius’ team and one who was neutral. It was a unanimous decision by all three judges to overturn the IAAF ban on Oscar Pistorius competing in events under their jurisdiction.

Prostheses (RSPs) are passive-elastic springs that are designed to emulate biological legs. They store and return elastic energy, but cannot generate net positive power or absorb negative power. Force is one of the key components in generating running speed and extensive research has found that uni-lateral amputees cannot transmit as much force on the ground with their RSP as they can with their biological legs. Pistorius and other bilateral amputees are also unable to transmit as much force with either of their RSP-equipped legs. RSPs have an elastic energy return of 92% whereas biological tendons offer between 93% and 95%. The Flex-Foot Cheetah blades emulate the elastic function of tendons, but they cannot do what a leg can do.

Brüggemann’s initial report suggested that the mechanical energy return of RSPs was greater than biological ankles but it did not take into account that in biological legs, energy is transferred from the quadriceps to the ankle during push-off. Elastic energy is most important for long distance running whereas sprinting is about force production and minimizing foot-ground contact time.

IAAF spokesman Nick Davies has confirmed that when the initial video analysis was made of Pistorius’ running style in Rome in 2007 his stride length was the same as his nearest competitor. Further studies have demonstrated that Pistorius actually takes shorter strides than his non-amputee competitors.

It has been claimed because the Flex-Foot Cheetahs are lighter than a human foot and calf, they facilitate an unnaturally shorter swing time which enables more strides to be taken. Some studies have compared video footage from the 100m Olympic finals in Beijing, showing bronze medallist Walter Dix ran with a leg swing-time of 0.274 seconds, faster than 0.297s generated by Pistorius in his 100m race win. The 2008 Paralympic silver medallist Jim Bob Bizzell, who is a single amputee, had a shorter leg swing time for his heavier biological leg than his RPSs in the same race.

Studies have shown that Paralympic athletes suffer more injuries (9.3 per 1,000 hours) during training compared to non-amputee sprinters (5.6-5.8 injuries per 1,000 hours). The Paralympic figure is nearly the same as the rate of injuries that are sustained in collegiate American football which is obviously a contact sport. Athletes with RSPs also have to cope with additional running injuries generated from the friction of their limbs and the prostheses which can limit their training time when compared to able-bodied athletes.

Now...can we put this to bed before someone brings up the fact that Oscar Pistorius graduated from Trinity.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

Flex-Foot Cheetahs have been used by Paralympic athletes since 1996 and have been scientifically proven to not give a net advantage over able-bodied athletes. Oscar Pistorius has been competing with the same Össur manufactured blades since 2004. The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled in 2008 that he can legally compete in IAAF athletics races wearing his ÖssurFlex-Foot Cheetahs.

Two scientific teams presented their findings to the CAS. One team of scientists, led by Peter Brüggemann had been hired by the IAAF. The findings of an American team of scientists were presented by Hugh Herr and Rodger Kram. Three judges presided: one from the IAAF, one chosen by Oscar Pistorius’ team and one who was neutral. It was a unanimous decision by all three judges to overturn the IAAF ban on Oscar Pistorius competing in events under their jurisdiction.

Prostheses (RSPs) are passive-elastic springs that are designed to emulate biological legs. They store and return elastic energy, but cannot generate net positive power or absorb negative power. Force is one of the key components in generating running speed and extensive research has found that uni-lateral amputees cannot transmit as much force on the ground with their RSP as they can with their biological legs. Pistorius and other bilateral amputees are also unable to transmit as much force with either of their RSP-equipped legs. RSPs have an elastic energy return of 92% whereas biological tendons offer between 93% and 95%. The Flex-Foot Cheetah blades emulate the elastic function of tendons, but they cannot do what a leg can do.

Brüggemann’s initial report suggested that the mechanical energy return of RSPs was greater than biological ankles but it did not take into account that in biological legs, energy is transferred from the quadriceps to the ankle during push-off. Elastic energy is most important for long distance running whereas sprinting is about force production and minimizing foot-ground contact time.

IAAF spokesman Nick Davies has confirmed that when the initial video analysis was made of Pistorius’ running style in Rome in 2007 his stride length was the same as his nearest competitor. Further studies have demonstrated that Pistorius actually takes shorter strides than his non-amputee competitors.

It has been claimed because the Flex-Foot Cheetahs are lighter than a human foot and calf, they facilitate an unnaturally shorter swing time which enables more strides to be taken. Some studies have compared video footage from the 100m Olympic finals in Beijing, showing bronze medallist Walter Dix ran with a leg swing-time of 0.274 seconds, faster than 0.297s generated by Pistorius in his 100m race win. The 2008 Paralympic silver medallist Jim Bob Bizzell, who is a single amputee, had a shorter leg swing time for his heavier biological leg than his RPSs in the same race.

Studies have shown that Paralympic athletes suffer more injuries (9.3 per 1,000 hours) during training compared to non-amputee sprinters (5.6-5.8 injuries per 1,000 hours). The Paralympic figure is nearly the same as the rate of injuries that are sustained in collegiate American football which is obviously a contact sport. Athletes with RSPs also have to cope with additional running injuries generated from the friction of their limbs and the prostheses which can limit their training time when compared to able-bodied athletes.

Now...can we put this to bed before someone brings up the fact that Oscar Pistorius graduated from Trinity.

I think this ends the debate folks.