Gun Control

Originally Posted by spindoc

Question for some of you CCW permit holders. Actually a couple of questions. A. do you always have your weapon with you and is a theater a place you'd happen to carry it? (prior to this event) and B. would you return fire in that instance with so many people around?

Discussed this in the actual thread about the incident and to be honest no. In fact I also went to see the 12:05 showing and had my gun on me when I pulled in the parking lot, I left it in my car. Next time I may not do that, but like many have said you just don't feel like you're in danger in that environment. Sadly as a result of this horrible act I may start to carry it pretty much every where I'm allowed to.

Now as for the second question, I dunno. Out gunned and risking shooting other people is hard to really know how you would react, in my mind I feel as though I'd try to make a move regardless of whether or not I had a gun but I'm not going to charge a guy with a gun pointed at me so I think I'm waiting for an opening. Different scenario, if I can get a clean shot then I'm shooting, that's why I have it.

Funny story, this past week we went to the Reds game with my girlfriend and her cousin and her husband. When we got in my car he started to change the air conditioning and looked at the compartment below it and said "Wow there's a gun right there" I said "Yup", to which he replied "well is it loaded", I paused for a second almost surprised at the question and said "well yea I'm not going to throw it at them" to which he replied "my other friend said the exact same thing". If you have a gun you have it for a reason, to shoot it if you or someone else is in a deadly situation, that's it. I don't advertise my gun, that's stupid. I hope that I'm never in a situation where I have to use my gun against another person but if I do then that's why I have it.

Originally Posted by Jumper_Dad

Shoot him in the face, gas mask would be no protection. Even hitting his helmet would rock his world enough that others could escape while he was getting his bearinsg back.

I'm sure he wasn't sitting still. Hitting a moving target in that small of a spot right in the middle a crowd with all the smoke and confusion is a dicey proposition. Especially given that a lot of weapons carried in pockets are not known for their accuracy at distance. Anyone that pulled out a handgun in that situation and went after the shooter would likely have been victim number 13. This would truly been a situation to only use you handgun as a last resort if cornered or something.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

Wasn't sure which thread this would be most relevant to, but I have a question for those who might know. With all the specialized gear this guy was wearing, would a conceald carry gun have made any difference whatsoever? It sounds like he was prepared sufficiently to defend himself against even the most powerful weapons. Would he have been vulnerable through the gas mask?

Maybe.

But if I have a shot I'm sure as hell going to take it. No way of even knowing he's got the gear on until you take the shot. You can monday morning quarterback this all you want but in that situation if I'm close enough I'm shooting 2 shots and then reacting however I have to after that.

Originally Posted by TheDeuce

I don't have my CC permit, yet. I've wanted it, but never really pursued it. Events like this make me want to go get it tomorrow....

It's sad that this event took place and even more sad the it's being viewed as a gun control issue however this may be a wake up call to those that can legally purchase and carry a gun. If you know you're a responsible law obiding citizen then think of it as a public service as well as protection for yourself.

Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym

I'm sure he wasn't sitting still. Hitting a moving target in that small of a spot right in the middle a crowd with all the smoke and confusion is a dicey proposition. Especially given that a lot of weapons carried in pockets are not known for their accuracy at distance. Anyone that pulled out a handgun in that situation and went after the shooter would likely have been victim number 13. This would truly been a situation to only use you handgun as a last resort if cornered or something.

Glock 27 fits nicely in my pocket, not a lot of bullets but hoefully I don't need a lot. With a clear shot I would be comfortable shooting at a person within 30-40 feet as for the gun, I know it's more than capable.

Originally Posted by sportsfan41

Glock 27 fits nicely in my pocket, not a lot of bullets but hoefully I don't need a lot. With a clear shot I would be comfortable shooting at a person within 30-40 feet as for the gun, I know it's more than capable.

How comfortable would you be getting yourself to within 30-40 feet (if you weren't originally)? How confident would you be that you wouldn't hit one of the other 400 people running for their lives in the smoke and confusion? How confident would you be that you could hit him somewhere that wasn't armored while he was moving and shooting back? How confident would you be knowing that if you didn't put him down with your first shot that you would likely draw about 50 shots back in your direction. From an assault rifle. At short range. Don't you think it is more likely that you would have run and only tried to shoot as a last resort? Wouldn't it be wiser to do so?

Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym

How comfortable would you be getting yourself to within 30-40 feet (if you weren't originally)? How confident would you be that you wouldn't hit one of the other 400 people running for their lives in the smoke and confusion? How confident would you be that you could hit him somewhere that wasn't armored while he was moving and shooting back? How confident would you be knowing that if you didn't put him down with your first shot that you would likely draw about 50 shots back in your direction. From an assault rifle. At short range. Don't you think it is more likely that you would have run and only tried to shoot as a last resort? Wouldn't it be wiser to do so?

Like I said before...once rounds started coming his way he may have left. He obviously didnt want a gun battle with the two police officers who found him.

Originally Posted by halfback20

Like I said before...once rounds started coming his way he may have left. He obviously didnt want a gun battle with the two police officers who found him.

Oh I think he intended to be taken alive. I also don't think he would have quit if someone had fired off a couple or rounds at him across the theater. Now if he would have thought 5-10 people would have returned fire I don't think he would ever have attempted it. Let me ask you this: If you were in full body armor and someone pulled out a pistol and started shooting at you from 50 feet away and you were armed as the shooter was, would you run?

I was just sitting here watching Batman Begins. There are some spooky little similarities to these events in there!

Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym

How comfortable would you be getting yourself to within 30-40 feet (if you weren't originally)? How confident would you be that you wouldn't hit one of the other 400 people running for their lives in the smoke and confusion? How confident would you be that you could hit him somewhere that wasn't armored while he was moving and shooting back? How confident would you be knowing that if you didn't put him down with your first shot that you would likely draw about 50 shots back in your direction. From an assault rifle. At short range. Don't you think it is more likely that you would have run and only tried to shoot as a last resort? Wouldn't it be wiser to do so?

How confident would you be that ducking and not doing any thing meant you would live? No this isn't a smack in the mouth I really want to know how cofident you would be? People who do nothing.........., do nothing.

Originally Posted by AverageJoesGym

Oh I think he intended to be taken alive. I also don't think he would have quit if someone had fired off a couple or rounds at him across the theater. Now if he would have thought 5-10 people would have returned fire I don't think he would ever have attempted it. Let me ask you this: If you were in full body armor and someone pulled out a pistol and started shooting at you from 50 feet away and you were armed as the shooter was, would you run?

Seeing as how we aren't psychpathis that's hard to answer. If I'm playing a video game sure I might take some defensive stances. The fact that he meekly gave up once facing anyone with a gun says a lot. Maybe I don't even have to get within 30-40 feet given how big of a POS he was/is.

Originally Posted by Birdsfan

I was just sitting here watching Batman Begins. There are some spooky little similarities to these events in there!

How so? Other than people get shot.

There are 3 basic reactions to a catostrophic situation:

1. Flee
2. Freeze
3. Respond

Unless you've been in a kill or be killed situation, you really don't know how you'll react. I guarantee there were people who ran immediatly for the main door, there were people who stood or sat frozen, and there were people who reacted in some other fashion:
-I think they said 3 of the people who died were covering their wife or girl friend (so their reaction was to protect a loved one)
-Several people laid low and went out the exit he came in because he was shooting at people running towards the main exit.
-Had there been people with concealed weapons, I guarantee there would have been some who returned fire.

It's a different situation but think about the footage from the colapse of the stage at the Sugarland concert. A certain percentage of people fled immediately, a certain percentage froze and watched it all happen, and a certain percentage immediately rushed the stage to try and help save people who were trapped.

I am still struggling with the assault rifle legally acquired and used in this shooting.

Why do we need such a weapon to be legal?

Here's my 2 cents. I would guess that less then 1% of the population that have a CC permit have the training to use a weapon in a situation like this. Shooting a paper target on a range at 20 feet is a far cry from shooting at someone firing an AR15 at you in a dark theatre with 300 people running around like crazy. Not to mention the suspect is pretty much completely covered with body armour, and did I mention firing an AR15. How's your .380 looking now. So even if you are able to get off some shots what little training you've had of shooting for center mass is out the window and you get to try and hit his face. I'm guessing a lot of law enforcement wouldn't be able to make that shot. It's not whether or not you can hit a 6" target at 20, 30, or even 40 feet. I would say with little practice most people could learn to do that. It's being able to hit that target when your heart rate is jacked, you've probably peed yourself (maybe worse), people are running every where screaming, it's dark, smoking, bullets everywhere, ect....

Maybe HB20 has a point and once return fire came his way he would have got the heck out of dodge. Or you firing at him just gave him some where to shoot next. What if he didn't run. Now you're in a gun fight with someone who has full body armour, an AR15, shot gun, and 2 pistols. What do you have?

Originally Posted by Clyde

I am still struggling with the assault rifle legally acquired and used in this shooting.

Why do we need such a weapon to be legal?

Had he walked in and started shooting with a couple of 12 gauges this would have been much worse IMO. An AR15 is an assault weapon in name and appearance only. If you want to question them I can understand questioning the high capacity mags. The gun itself is nothing more then a semi auto .223. Had he walked in with a Remington 7400 it would have bascially been the samething.

Originally Posted by sportsfan41

If I'm playing a video game sure I might take some defensive stances. The fact that he meekly gave up once facing anyone with a gun says a lot. Maybe I don't even have to get within 30-40 feet given how big of a POS he was/is.

Are you willing to sacrifice your life to gamble on his level of courage? Most mass killers are suicidal. Tehy want to go down in a blaze of "glory."

Originally Posted by sportsfan41

It's sad that this event took place and even more sad the it's being viewed as a gun control issue however this may be a wake up call to those that can legally purchase and carry a gun. If you know you're a responsible law obiding citizen then think of it as a public service as well as protection for yourself.

It's definitely a protection issue. Honestly, I'm not sure I would even tell anybody I had a gun if I decided to make the purchase. Like you said in a previous post, I wouldn't advertise it, that's just asking for trouble. But having one would give me some sort of peace of mind.

Originally Posted by sportsfan41

How confident would you be that ducking and not doing any thing meant you would live? No this isn't a smack in the mouth I really want to know how cofident you would be? People who do nothing.........., do nothing.

I wouldn't be confident at all. In fact, I would be only slightly more confident in ducking and trying to get out of there than I would in trading my 6 shots from my 380 for 50 from his AR15. Sure, I'd try to use my gun if trapped and given no choice... But only then. Think about this: There's a really good reason that the military uses rifles instead of pistols as a primary weapon.

Originally Posted by Clyde

I am still struggling with the assault rifle legally acquired and used in this shooting.

Why do we need such a weapon to be legal?

Honestly it's the exact same thing as sports cars, why should we allow people to purchase a car that can go 180 mph or 0-60 in 5 seconds. It's a persons choice, it's the freedom that makes America unique. If you want to require more background checks/info for someone to purchase a gun then thats fine. I own the exact same type of gun it's a Double Star AR-15 which is made in good ole Winchester, KY. I'm sure those people would like to keep their jobs and not have them taken away while a persons rights are being snuffed out as a result of some lunatics actions. FYI you can but this type of gun at your local Wal Mart.