Cincinnati Street Car Design

Hit the link to see the design chosen for Cincinnati's new street car.

Cincinnati picks streetcar design | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Thoughts?

Looks neat and an epic waste of money and resources.

I go back and forth on the value of this. It seems to make little economic sense to me, then I see report after report on the economic development that follows street car routes. The one factor that makes it seem like there is truth in the economic value is that you can't arbitrarily move a street car route. You know there will be a lot of traffic (via the streetcar) flowing by your real estate. That provides incentive to invest in real estate and businesses along the route.

Originally Posted by HammerTime

Looks neat and an epic waste of money and resources.

I agree on all points!

It seems like the only thing as polarizing and anger-inducing in the area as the streetcar are bridge tolls. I think it's a good idea as long as the route (or routes?) is good. Making it easier for people to get around the city can only help.

I love the idea of streetcar, but not so much the plan as they have laid it out thus far. The idea has a lot of things going against its success:

1. Cincinnati no longer has a "Central Business District" as it did 50 or 60 years ago (when a lot of bigger cities got on board with citywide railway transportation and Cincinnati chose to ignore it). Instead, it has numerous scattered business districts in downtown, Clifton, Queensgate, St. Bernard, Norwood, Reading, Evendale, Hyde Park, etc. Also, Cincinnati's retail business has moved to suburban malls and shopping centers. This leaves the streetcar line to only travel to one of the city's business districts - albeit one of the larger ones.
2. The streetcar is not connecting two symbiotic areas. It only travels from downtown to Over-The-Rhine, and from Over-The-Rhine to downtown. By and large, the people living in Over-The-Rhine are not those working in the downtown buildings, and the people working in the downtown buildings are not traveling to Over-The-Rhine. Why would this be any kind of logical first route to choose to start the project with?
3. The streetcar doesn't connect any of the colleges in the Cincinnati to anything. The streetcar route almost reaches Cincinnati State, but not really. It doesn't go up the hill to Clifton, so there won't be UC students taking advantage of the public transportation, and it doesn't go over to Xavier either.
4. Cincinnati has no money, and the city was already burned in the stadium tax deal. The people paying taxes in Hamilton County don't want to pay more money for something they aren't going to be using.

CWB nailed it.

Don't know which is dumber Cincinnati Street Car or 4 more years of Obama?

I like it! As well as the idea of a streetcar! As was mentioned, Cincinnati missed the boat years ago by not developing a light rail system, which will come back and haunt the area years down the road.

You have to start somewhere, I just wish that the first leg would go past the new casino. But, the second leg will go up Vine to UC and then later to the zoo. The project did get federal money so it will be able to go down to the Banks right in front of the Reds stadium.

As VOR mentioned, economic development, wait more than 5 years after the first phase is open to see how much of an impact the streetcar will have on development all along the route.

Also, Voters approved this, not once, but twice!

^ It needs to go across the river as well IMO. Sweep along the Levy and loop back plus a route to the casino. Then we would be talking.

Originally Posted by HammerTime

^ It needs to go across the river as well IMO. Sweep along the Levy and loop back plus a route to the casino. Then we would be talking.

That would drastically improve the idea. I'd settle for a mini mass transit system that linked up Covington, Newport & Downtown.

Originally Posted by ColonelCrazy

That would drastically improve the idea. I'd settle for a mini mass transit system that linked up Covington, Newport & Downtown.

In the light rail proposal about 10 years ago that was one of the routes, I think it will happen eventually, replacing the SouthBank Shuttle.

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

I love the idea of streetcar, but not so much the plan as they have laid it out thus far. The idea has a lot of things going against its success:

1. Cincinnati no longer has a "Central Business District" as it did 50 or 60 years ago (when a lot of bigger cities got on board with citywide railway transportation and Cincinnati chose to ignore it). Instead, it has numerous scattered business districts in downtown, Clifton, Queensgate, St. Bernard, Norwood, Reading, Evendale, Hyde Park, etc. Also, Cincinnati's retail business has moved to suburban malls and shopping centers. This leaves the streetcar line to only travel to one of the city's business districts - albeit one of the larger ones.
2. The streetcar is not connecting two symbiotic areas. It only travels from downtown to Over-The-Rhine, and from Over-The-Rhine to downtown. By and large, the people living in Over-The-Rhine are not those working in the downtown buildings, and the people working in the downtown buildings are not traveling to Over-The-Rhine. Why would this be any kind of logical first route to choose to start the project with?
3. The streetcar doesn't connect any of the colleges in the Cincinnati to anything. The streetcar route almost reaches Cincinnati State, but not really. It doesn't go up the hill to Clifton, so there won't be UC students taking advantage of the public transportation, and it doesn't go over to Xavier either.
4. Cincinnati has no money, and the city was already burned in the stadium tax deal. The people paying taxes in Hamilton County don't want to pay more money for something they aren't going to be using.

Spot on, with all your points. And, yet the whole plan still intrigues me just a little.

Initially, I was totally against the idea. The track layout, lack of inclusion into some major current area's of interest, and huge expenditure of cash, were some of the reasons. But, the biggest for me was, I think Cincinnati is one of the easiest cities in the country to navigate via a car. There's pretty much three-ways to get anywhere in the city (Pun intended). IMO this is why Cincinnati failed to move to a mass transit system sooner.

Moving forward though, a system like this could open up a lot of possibilities. Especially if funded well enough to grow, and that's the key. I've gone from thinking this was the dumbest thing since the stadium idea, to more of a wait and see idea for the city.

Originally Posted by ColonelCrazy

That would drastically improve the idea. I'd settle for a mini mass transit system that linked up Covington, Newport & Downtown.

And most likely drastically decrease my bank account once the casino is open. 2

Now this doesn't make much sense to me. Duke Energy has existing gas and electric lines that have long been in place and will require locating in order to put in the ill-conceived streetcar line. The city literally overlooked the fact that this would be an issue while creating their plans and budgeting for the project, and now the $18.7 million price tag for the relocation of those utility lines is standing directly in the way of the project's forward progress.

The city expects Duke to pay the entirety of the cost of the relocation, and Duke says if they're forced to pay for it, they will be forced to pass that cost directly on to their customers. Unless there's some kind of legal document that establishes a precedent for the utility provider bearing responsibility for utility relocation on projects like this, I think any kind of legal proceedings by Cincinnati City Hall would be a waste of time and taxpayers' money.

City threatens Duke over streetcar costs | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

A couple posters have summed it up pretty well: this is a great idea, the execution is lacking. There are a lot of problems with what they've chosen to do here and this is coming from someone as bullish on public transit as you're likely to meet.

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

Now this doesn't make much sense to me. Duke Energy has existing gas and electric lines that have long been in place and will require locating in order to put in the ill-conceived streetcar line. The city literally overlooked the fact that this would be an issue while creating their plans and budgeting for the project, and now the $18.7 million price tag for the relocation of those utility lines is standing directly in the way of the project's forward progress.

The city expects Duke to pay the entirety of the cost of the relocation, and Duke says if they're forced to pay for it, they will be forced to pass that cost directly on to their customers. Unless there's some kind of legal document that establishes a precedent for the utility provider bearing responsibility for utility relocation on projects like this, I think any kind of legal proceedings by Cincinnati City Hall would be a waste of time and taxpayers' money.

City threatens Duke over streetcar costs | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

They are still fighting about this?

What a drain and waste of money this thing is. Glad I don't live in Hamilton county.

Originally Posted by HammerTime

They are still fighting about this?

What a drain and waste of money this thing is. Glad I don't live in Hamilton county.

Pretty much sums up my feelings at this point.

Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue

Pretty much sums up my feelings at this point.

It would be one thing if it was actually designed to go places where people are going to ride it but it's not. Not like I haven't said that 10 times already.

The Streetcar in Cincinnati is a huge waste of money and one ridiculous idea.